Semantics

[mangerton]

At the end of today's "Feedback" (see elsewhere on these boards) Roger Bolton announced a "new innovation".

Disappointing. An old innovation - now that would have been something.

[marthe]

One thing that really makes me cringe is the use of "I go" or "she goes" for "I said" or "she replied".

I've even read this in the back pages of the Radio Times. Not semantics but meaningless use of language.

saly, I also dislike "I go/she/goes." I find it to be more annoying than the rather harmless "have a nice day," a phrase commonly used over here by salespeople (shop assistants) at chain stores (e.g. Wal Mart) and waiters/waitresses (aka waitstaff) at fastfood restaurants. "Are you all set?" meaning "do you need further assistance?" is equally grating and seems to be used in many shops and restaurants. I expect there are many annoying expressions on both sides of the Atlantic. Look at the language of advertising and real estate ads.

[mangerton]

Here's a link to an article which is guaranteed to raise your faith in the teaching profession. I don't mean the content. I'm more concerned by the spelling, and especially the masterly use of apostrophes.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11023364/October%20Executive%20Report.jpg

edit: Here's something else I think worth mentioning. The writer uses "myself" incorrectly. This is a mistake which has become increasingly prevalent recently.

[vinteuil]

I liked "a paper with arrange of rates" too. And they think a semi-colon is the same as a colon - harrumph!

But, perhaps, after all, this is just a Union for one fat teacher - it says it is "the largest teacher's union"...

[french frank]

it says it is "the largest teacher's union"...

I wonder how it's financed ...

[vinteuil]

There are not philosophical reasons but practical ones. In Bristol there are (still) a lot of independent schools, a fact which has been blamed for the very poor standard of achievement of the Bristol state schools. Education-conscious middle-class parents put their children through independent schools and assisted-places helped bright kids to get into the schools for which their parents couldn't afford fees. This creamed off all the brightest children from the state system. Similarly, academies already, and free schools in increasing numbers, take additional money from the education budget.
Double whammy for the local state schools: left with less able children and less money at their disposal. That seems to be our local situation, anyway. I'll ask our local education 'Cabinet' representative if that is still true.

I have purloined this text from the 'education. education, education' thread on this forum to demonstrate why a distinction between less and fewer is not only desirable but essential...

FF, being the grammatically conscious person that she is, clearly meant 'less able' children - ie children with lower abilities - but many would read the text as if it had the same meaning as 'fewer able children' - ie not so many children with abilities...

A real risk of confusion here.

[french frank]

FF, being the grammatically conscious person that she is, clearly meant 'less able' children - ie children with lower abilities - but many would read the text as if it had the same meaning as 'fewer able children' - ie not so many children with abilities...

I suspect in this context (though not in all) it arrives at the same point but by a different route. Yes, the abler children get into the independent schools, one way or another, while the less able don't.

[Lateralthinking1]

On a slightly different point, I thought the cards of Adam Werritty were shocking. To describe himself as an "Advisor" to Dr Fox and not an "Adviser" is beyond the pale. Mind you, that is what happens when you put an ex-Capital DJ in charge of MOD.

[Serial_Apologist]

Advisor gets my goat too - as does "improvisor".

[burning dog]

less money and fewer children
more money and erm... more children

We need a new word.

There's a Disc Jockey in the Cabinet and and an X Factor judge running British Airways. What is the country coming to?

[mangerton]

On a slightly different point, I thought the cards of Adam Werritty were shocking. To describe himself as an "Advisor" to Dr Fox and not an "Adviser" is beyond the pale. Mind you, that is what happens when you put an ex-Capital DJ in charge of MOD.

I work in a building full of "advisors". According to our lords and masters in Westminster, the people they speak to on the telephone are "customers".

A few colleagues and I try to maintain standards by referring to "advisers" and "applicants" respectively.

[Pabmusic]

On a slightly different point, I thought the cards of Adam Werritty were shocking. To describe himself as an "Advisor" to Dr Fox and not an "Adviser" is beyond the pale. Mind you, that is what happens when you put an ex-Capital DJ in charge of MOD.

How I agree. Most dictionaries now seem to give 'advisor' as an alternative spelling, and my own experience is that it's fast becoming the usual, but I suspect that it began as a mistake - people are familiar with the 'visor' of a helmet, as well as '-or' nouns such as doctor and actor. Trouble is, it's difficult to turn things back, and I imagine future generations will see nothing odd about it. There are many words we use now that came about by mistakes or misunderstandings - pea, cherry, orange, uncle, rosemary, sweetheart, bridegroom - and this may be another.

I once worked as an 'advisor', but refused to have a name badge unless it said 'adviser' - I duly got one, but the person in control of name badges (there must be a term for that!) seemed genuinely surprised that the word could be spelt that way.

[kernelbogey]

[....] the person in control of name badges (there must be a term for that!) seemed genuinely surprised that the word could be spelt that way.

Was he a badgor?

[gurnemanz]

One thing that really makes me cringe is the use of "I go" or "she goes" for "I said" or "she replied".

I've even read this in the back pages of the Radio Times. Not semantics but meaningless use of language.

I know what you mean and also do not find it attractive but am aware that as an oldie who has not embraced this usage I am being reactionary. The use of "she goes" for "she said" is now so prevalent in colloquial English that for many speakers it is the norm not an aberration. I think I have become inured to it by constant exposure. You can't avoid it if you have any contact with the younger generation and would have to spend most of the time cringing if it continued to offend you. It isn't meaningless for the people who use it, because they know exactly what they want it to mean, as do their interlocutors. Whether we like it or not language lives and evolves by "rules" being broken.

[kernelbogey]

[....] The use of "she goes" for "she said" is now so prevalent in colloquial English that for many speakers it is the norm not an aberration. I think I have become inured to it by constant exposure.[....]

So she goes ‘Watcher mean “’E goes”?

An’ I go “Means ‘said’ dunnit?”.

An’ she goes “Aincha never read Fowler then?”.

An’ I go “Wha’ever”.