Mateyness

[Nick Armstrong]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTwxiKMWCkg

Perfection, Paulie-baby

[Wallace]

I've experienced this from a police officer writing out a speeding ticket: I suspect trained to do it to deflect the poor punter's anger at being nicked. Police are also adept at using 'sir' with a particular resonance.... 'I'm being polite to you, so don't get stroppy with me.'

On the occasions when I have been detained by the Police, the officers have nearly always used my first name. I think that they are taught to do this as a means of defusing tension but at the same time of maintaining control of and dominance over the situation as they know my name and I do not know their names. I find it offensive as well an abuse of authority. I expect to be treated with more respect by someone who is at least half my age. I usually take issue with the mode of address and ask to be addressed as Mr Wallace or Sir. My request is normally complied with although it is clearly done grudgingly and it certainly doesn't help speed up my release from custody . You can never go wrong, I feel, with a Mr xxxx or just Sir. Your interlocutor can always respond with a "please drop the formality and do call me Henry" or whatever and all is well. However commence with Henry as the form of address and the offence has been given and the damage done. As for mate and pal, they are as bad if not worse. I see it as a form of bullying which demands that I align myself with the other person's egalitarian views without them first enquiring if I share those views.

[Mandryka]

I once took great pleasure in telling some Dutch police officers how rude they were, to go jabbering on in their own language when they were perfectly capable of discussing the matter in English, so I could have understood them.

[gurnemanz]

"pal" is a bit threatening,
"buddy" I might use but, I think, ironically
"mate" is usually genuinely friendly, harmless and quite infectious. My son and friends in their mid twenties use it all the time and I have caught myself reciprocating more than once. I wouldn't use it with a stranger. "Sorry, mate" is heard a lot informally, eg on the tennis court, apologising for a mis-hit or net-cord.
Down here in Wiltshire locals frequently address women as "my dear". I will happily join in with this but I think it is obvious that it is just me playing the part of a Wiltshireman - which I am not - for a laugh. Maybe this irritates people but no one has complained. (Germans quite happily use "Mein Lieber" or "Meine Liebe" and I join in there too.)

Do the French still say "Mon brave"?

[LeMartinPecheur]

"pal" is a bit threatening,
"buddy" I might use but, I think, ironically
"mate" is usually genuinely friendly, harmless and quite infectious. My son and friends in their mid twenties use it all the time and I have caught myself reciprocating more than once. I wouldn't use it with a stranger. "Sorry, mate" is heard a lot informally, eg on the tennis court, apologising for a mis-hit or net-cord.
Down here in Wiltshire locals frequently address women as "my dear". I will happily join in with this but I think it is obvious that it is just me playing the part of a Wiltshireman - which I am not - for a laugh. Maybe this irritates people but no one has complained. (Germans quite happily use "Mein Lieber" or "Meine Liebe" and I join in there too.)

Do the French still say "Mon brave"?

Down here in darkest Cornwall, "my lover" is a still a standard form of address, whether to same or opposite sex. Nearly as bad (good) as having local ladies address me as "pet" when I was on my honeymoon in Co. Durham in the 70s while "When the boo-at comes in" was on BBC TV

EDIT Sorry Kernelbogey, hadn't seen your #40... "My bird" is still current and appears to have spread to Cornwall.

[pilamenon]

"pal" - from Anglo-Romani phal, from Romani phral, from Sanskrit भ्रातृ (bhrātṛ), from Proto-Indo-European *bʰréh₂tēr. Cognates also include English brother, Ancient Greek φράτηρ, Latin frater.

Does it have to come from the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle or Beowulf to be called an English word?

What about Pals battalions?

Pal is nonetheless more widely used in the USA.

And yes, it can sound menacing!

[marthe]

Does it have to come from the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle or Beowulf to be called an English word?

What about Pals battalions?

Pal is nonetheless more widely used in the USA.

And yes, it can sound menacing!

I think "buddy" or "bud' is more common over here (USA). You might refer to someone as a pal but you would probably call him your "bud" or "buddy." Mate is only used in the expat community. Though people here will talk about classmates, schoolmates, workmates etc., they won't call each other "mate." My husband (English) does call our son "pal" or "mate" sometimes, but when said son is in trouble he is addressed as "sunshine."

How many were brought up to call adults Mr. and Mrs. so-and-so? We were never allowed to address adults by their first names but always by a more formal title. It became a rite of passage to be invited to address someone by a first name, as Mary rather than Mrs. Smith for example. My children's friends, all now in their late twenties, still call me Mrs. G... though I've asked them to call me M....!

[Mahlerei]

Hi marthe

Yes, I've always thought of buddy/bud as American, mates as UK/Oz. Interesting about the Mr/Mrs; I was brought up to use those titles or, if I knew someone well, to call them Uncle/Aunt. Bizarre, I know. Only when I lived in Kenya did I pick up the habit of calling adults by their first names. My kids do the same.

[Stillhomewardbound]

At my local chinese take-away the boss man will always address me as 'young man'. Well, I giggle like a school girl and it quite makes my evening.

"Ooo err ... young man ... my age .. your age!!!!!!!!!'

[marthe]

SHB, the mechanic who used to repair my car always called me "young lady"! That always made my day! Alas, he's no longer in business and I no longer have the car... Recently I went to a Dunkin Donuts to get some doughnuts to bring to a meeting. The young man behind the counter gave me the senior citizen rate without even asking to see any ID. I'm not quite retirement age. I must have looked a bit bleary eyed that morning. Otherwise he was quite polite and called me "ma'am" which is the polite form of address for a woman who is no longer a teen ager (she would be called "miss").

Mahlerei: we also used aunt/uncle for well-known adults. When my children were young, I and the other mothers, went through a drill with our children (especially the boys) every time they were invited somewhere. It consisted of reminding them to shake hands with a firm hand shake, look people in the eyes, speak without mumbling, not shuffle their feet, and say things such as "Thank you very much for inviting me for lunch Mrs. White" or "Good afternoon Mrs. Jones." My children and their friends are now reasonably civilised adults.

[Philidor]

The correct way to deal with Bettys:

What do people think about the 'I'll get a...' formulation? I've a barman friend (haven't we all?) who, when a customer says 'I'll get a gin and tonic' replies:

'No you won't. I get the drinks round here. A "please" wouldn't go amiss either. Don't bring Americanisms into my pub. Just because Tony Blair climbed into bed with the Yanks doesn't mean we all have to. Now, what would you like sir?'

Note the insolent 'sir'. He's a big PG Wodehouse fan.

[mangerton]

Mahlerei, I too was brought up with this silly "uncle and aunt" nonsense. What was wrong with mr or mrs?

I received Christmas cards for years from a woman who signed herself "aunt" and was no relation.

On the Wodehouse theme..... I only had two aunts, one who was good and deserving, and one who probably ate broken bottles, though this was never conclusively established.

[burning dog]

"Mate" has been in common use in the UK for years (40 at least), way before Aussie soaps. Chief is also common, as it is in Spain ("Jefe!"). Seems harmless to me in the informal context I've usually come across it. "Excuse mate. Do you turn left for the Town Centre?" Should I expect to be called "Sir" in that example?

My Luvverrr

[kernelbogey]

Down here in darkest Cornwall, "my lover" is a still a standard form of address, whether to same or opposite sex. Nearly as bad (good) as having local ladies address me as "pet" when I was on my honeymoon in Co. Durham in the 70s while "When the boo-at comes in" was on BBC TV

EDIT Sorry Kernelbogey, hadn't seen your #40... "My bird" is still current and appears to have spread to Cornwall.

LeMP good to see your response, and update on Cornish modes of address. (And apologies for not yet attending to your PM.)

A couple of years ago, in Liskeard - I had grown up in Cornwall (even darker in those days) - I was walking down a street to where I'd parked my car. A couple of rather rough looking men were approaching and I felt a twinge of anxiety. This took me back to childhood self-protection methods and as they drew near I said "Alright?" with an upward flick of the head - a standard form of greeting from back then which I sometimes still hear in Cornwall. They replied in kind.

Having noticed some responses in this thread of aversion to mateyness in various forms, I've been reflecting that my drift to using 'Mate' as indicated in my M1 is decidedly a piece of active levelling beween me and the person I'm addressing. Like others, I don't like various forms of informality being used where there is a transaction in hand (as in a shop, pub bar, car showroom etc) but I think it's a useful linguisitc device for reducing potential tension in a verbal transaction with a stranger, whether that be from context, the sound of one's voice and accent (which will have regional or class connotations) or any other potential threat.

As a middle-class child at a rough primary school in Cornwall in the early fifties, I adopted a Cornish accent and vocabulary to defuse tension, and disguise my class, at school in just this way, while speaking RP at home.

[burning dog]

I don't like various forms of informality being used where there is a transaction in hand (as in a shop, pub bar, car showroom etc) but I think it's a useful linguisitc device for reducing potential tension in a verbal transaction with a stranger,.

I think most would agree with that. Something I really dislike is salespeople or officials using first names univited.

Made me think of this.