The Red Flag's flagging a bit... Lol.

[amateur51]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpTeSETtMls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4pYYVPLchg

Brilliant stuff, mercia

Was that Pinochet I saw saluting around 00.26?

[amateur51]

[QUOTE=Bryn;87474]

Oh but "Welsh" is, by etymology, foreign, is it not?

In that it is the English for Cymraeg, I agree Bryn

Later: Thanks vinteuil - you wuz ahead of me, as always

[vinteuil]

good old wiki - I will regard walnuts, the Vlach Quartet, and Walworth Road differently now...

Etymology of Wales
The Anglo-Saxon word for 'foreign' or 'foreigner' was Waelisc and a 'foreign(er's) land' was called Wēalas. The modern English forms of these words with respect to the modern country are Welsh (the people) and Wales (the land), respectively.
Historically in Britain the words were not restricted to modern Wales or to the Welsh but were used indiscriminately to refer to anything that the Anglo-Saxons associated with Celtic Britons, including other foreign lands (e.g., Cornwall), places once associated with Celtic Britons (e.g., Walworth in County Durham and Walton in West Yorkshire), the surnames of people (e.g., Walsh and Wallace) and various other things that were once new and foreign to the Anglo-Saxons (e.g., the walnut). None of these historic usages is necessarily connected to Wales or the Welsh.
The Anglo-Saxon words are derived from the same Germanic root (singular Walh, plural Walha), applied to Italic and Celtic peoples and places, that has provided modern names for Continental lands (e.g., Wallonia and Wallachia) and peoples (e.g., the Vlachs via a borrowing into Old Church Slavonic), none of which has any connection to Wales or the Welsh.

Etymology of Cymru
The modern Welsh name for themselves is Cymry, and Cymru is Welsh for "Land of the Cymry". The etymological origin of Cymry is from the Brythonic word combrogi, meaning "fellow-countrymen". The use of the word Cymry as a self-designation derives from the post-Roman Era relationship of the Welsh with the Brythonic-speaking peoples of northern England and southern Scotland, the peoples of Yr Hen Ogledd (English: The Old North). In its original use, it amounted to a self-perception that the Welsh and the "Men of the North" were one people, exclusive of all others.[ In particular, the term was not applied to the Cornish or the Breton peoples, who are of similar heritage, culture, and language to both the Welsh and the Men of the North. The word came into use as a self-description probably before the 7th century. It is attested in a praise poem to Cadwallon ap Cadfan (Moliant Cadwallon, by Afan Ferddig) c. 633. In Welsh literature, the word Cymry was used throughout the Middle Ages to describe the Welsh, though the older, more generic term Brythoniaid continued to be used to describe any of the Britonnic peoples (including the Welsh) and was the more common literary term until c. 1100. Thereafter Cymry prevailed as a reference to the Welsh. Until c. 1560 Cymry was used indiscriminately to mean either the people (Cymry) or their homeland (Cymru).
The Latinised forms of these names are Cambrian or Cambric ("Welsh") and Cambria ("Wales"). They survive as lesser-used alternative names for Wales, Welsh and the Welsh people. Examples include the Cambrian Mountains (which cover most of Wales), the newspaper Cambrian News, as well as the organisations Cambrian Airways, Cambrian Railways and Cambrian Archaeological Association. Outside Wales, this form survives as the name of Cumbria in North West England, which was once a part of Yr Hen Ogledd. This form also appears at times in literary references, perhaps most notably in the pseudohistorical Historia Regum Britanniae of Geoffrey of Monmouth, where the character of Camber is described as the eponymous King of Cymru.

[Flosshilde]

I prefer la Marseillaise, both for its sentiments and its tune - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVFccuaGfso

(admitedly it's sung here by a rather better performer than the Labour party front bench can muster)

[teamsaint]

THe lib dems sing that kind of thing? amazing. pity their ministers seem to be the opposite side of the fence.

Heres another tune that sums up a lot of the worlds problems, and suggests some answers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWzzvnPOyTM

(tune is a bit folky for this board, but so it goes!!

[vinteuil]

I prefer la Marseillaise, both for its sentiments and its tune...

... its sentiments? hmm, not sure

Arise children of the fatherland
The day of glory has arrived
Against us tyranny's
Bloody standard is raised
Listen to the sound in the fields
The howling of these fearsome soldiers
They are coming into our midst
To cut the throats of your sons and consorts

To arms citizens Form your battalions
March, march
Let impure blood
Water our furrows

[But I am of the school that is far less convinced by the French Revolution than many French are... ]

[french frank]

THe lib dems sing that kind of thing? amazing. pity their ministers seem to be the opposite side of the fence.

Mais, au contraire, mon frère. It is a policy still very much alive on their side of the Collision, albeit not likely to have an easy run past the other lot.

[MrGongGong]

Mais, au contraire, mon frère. It is a policy still very much alive on their side of the Collision, albeit not likely to have an easy run past the other lot.

I guess it's likely to go the same way as the other "policy" (you know the one about student finance) forgotten for the opportunity to carry Dave's rugby kit

[french frank]

I guess it's likely to go the same way as the other "policy" (you know the one about student finance) forgotten for the opportunity to carry Dave's rugby kit

Well, go on then, you do better!

[MrGongGong]

It was a sad day when it turned out that those that many of us (foolishly it turned out !) thought had a glimmer of integrity decided to abandon that for short term pragmatic reasons. All the "water under the bridge" stuff cuts no ice with many of us, honesty and integrity matter far more than these shallow people think.

[french frank]

It was a sad day when it turned out that those that many of us (foolishly it turned out !) thought had a glimmer of integrity decided to abandon that for short term pragmatic reasons. All the "water under the bridge" stuff cuts no ice with many of us, honesty and integrity matter far more than these shallow people think.

We've been over it many times; but for me a key factor was that the tuition fee policy was never very high on the LibDems' list of priorities. It was one among many that in all probability would have been shelved in any first parliament, even in the unlikely event that the LibDems had won an outright majority. It was the campaign by the NUS that raised its profile during the election campaign.

And, what's more - I don't believe that university tuition fees were high on many people's agenda when they cast their vote either. The post-election anger is at the formation of the coalition with the Tories: if the LibDems had promised free bird seed and then supported a new tax on it, everyone would be equally outraged.

[amateur51]

We've been over it many times; but for me a key factor was that the tuition fee policy was never very high on the LibDems' list of priorities. It was one among many that in all probability would have been shelved in any first parliament, even in the unlikely event that the LibDems had won an outright majority. It was the campaign by the NUS that raised its profile during the election campaign.

And, what's more - I don't believe that university tuition fees were high on many people's agenda when they cast their vote either. The post-election anger is at the formation of the coalition with the Tories: if the LibDems had promised free bird seed and then supported a new tax on it, everyone would be equally outraged.

Outrageously revisionist that, french frank and the free bird seed jibe is unworthy of you.

This Daily Telegraph summary of the Lib Dem's 2010 manifesto puts tuition fees as second priority under education

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7165001/liberal-democrat-manifesto.html

And there are many other examples of election stunts like this

http://www.channel4.com/news/tuition-fees-and-the-lib-dems

[MrGongGong]

indeed its been gone over many times
but the key fact is that Clegg was dishonest
they keep trying to distract from that but that's what people are angry about
there's no point at all in having policies if you are simply going to abandon them
the honest thing to do would have been to stand by that even if that had meant another election
honesty and integrity matter

[amateur51]

indeed its been gone over many times
but the key fact is that Clegg was dishonest
they keep trying to distract from that but that's what people are angry about
there's no point at all in having policies if you are simply going to abandon them
the honest thing to do would have been to stand by that even if that had meant another election
honesty and integrity matter

Spot on, MrGG! That would have been the truly honest & democratic thing to do, giving the public time to get its head around what a coalition might mean - certainly nobody voted for a coalition. Cameron may even have tried a minority Tory government first of all, who knows.

[french frank]

I'll scrap what I was going to say and let the indignation be given its full rein.

"There's no point at all in having policies if you are simply going to abandon them." If you were actually in politics instead of merely talking about it you'd think that was an oversimplification.