And the Winner is......

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  • Stillhomewardbound
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 1109

    #31
    PatrickOD ... I went looking for this last night but it does not appear to have made the RTEplayer yet.

    I did however watch the first of these programmes which provided a very useful overview but I was made cross by the emphasis place on Michael Higgins's age. Indeed, I was moved to send off the following letter to the Irish Times this afternoon:


    Dear Sir,

    I am disconcerted to see Michael D Higgins’s age being raised as a matter for concern in the presidential race. Interviewed by RTE’s Miriam O’Callaghan on Primetime she seemed to feel that this was a question on which he needed to be pressed, as if his longevity necessarily insinuated a frailty that might impact on his effectiveness in the role. Such questioning strikes me not only as wholly discriminatory, but gives no pause for the considerable virtues of maturity.

    Had the chance arisen on her recent state visit, would Ms O’Callaghan have thought to suggest to Queen Elizabeth that at 85 she was a bit over-the-hill; and in her own later years would she not hope to be still putting the questions in the front line of political interrogation.

    We’re all living longer and it is only right to adjust the perceptions we hold of our older citizens. Certainly, it never occurred to my late father, TP McKenna, that he should stop acting just because he had reached some arbitrary cut-off point. As long as he could still give a performance and retain the lines he was available up until his final screen appearance, aged 79.

    With age comes wisdom, not to mention a gravitas that would be entirely appropriate to the office of President and Mr.Higgins would be well advised to rise above such redundant concerns.

    Yours etc.

    Stephen McKenna
    Blackheath, London

    Comment

    • PatrickOD

      #32
      Shb, the TV3 programme, it's not RTE, can be found here:



      I agree entirely with your objection to raising Michael D's age. Well, I would - he's younger than I am, and I'm not old!

      The latest polls have him ahead, and some commentators are going for him.


      __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

      Postscript
      Shb, I'll be away until Monday evening. Developments may be followed, if you wish, at

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      Comment

      • Lateralthinking1

        #33
        Good grief, he is just 70. Reagan only started running America at that age. I would like to see this kind of questioning being made as unacceptable as asking someone whether they would be at a disadvantage for being black.

        Comment

        • amateur51

          #34
          Thanks for the link, Patrick.

          They're a boring old lot on the whole, except for Dana who is clearly visiting from another galaxy, bless. I thought that Michael D dealt with her passion for and confusion about the Irish constitution and what the preseident's powers are in a very fair and clear way.

          Poor David Norris - it was all tyres in the air at the very end, wasn't it. Vincent Browne couldn't understand why Norris wasn't ready for that question but surely if there's no real answer, he had to wriggle & hope. It was very embarassing as I'm an admirer but there you go.

          Mary Davis was all front & no breakfast I thought - a quango-creature and I thought that Brown skewered her well with the questions about her banking involvement.

          Seán Gallagher came across quite well until he was questioned about the real extent of his independence. He's very light on experience I felt and while he argued that you shouldn't have to have political experience to be President, he needs another 20 years of solid achievement, I suspect.

          In contrast Michael D Higgins has all the experience and the right sort of presentation and some good ideas, which weren't really explored. I thought that he came off best of them all.

          Martin McGuinness was of course always going to be a contentious candidate and I'm too ignorant of Irish politics on the ground to pass sensible comment. He seemed plausible to me, make the best case he could about his achievements in Government and kept his cool under a considerable but legitimate ambush from Browne.

          Gay Mitchell suffers from looking too much like an uncle of mine for comfort He was bland, very keen to land blows on Martin McGuinness' chin and fluffed it really. He nearly managed to lose his temper with Dana, which must be some sort of record.

          That's how I saw it. It's been very interesting to watch the process and I apologise to anyone to whom my remarks may seem unduly naive or irritatingly jejune.

          Comment

          • Stillhomewardbound
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 1109

            #35
            Here's my virtually concurrent take ...


            Dana wants it too bad ...


            Gay Mitchell thinks he's fighting a general election, but the whole point of the presidency is that the postholder has to be, and genuinely must be, above the political bunfight ...

            Snow drops and daffodils, butterflies and bees ... Dana, not even on your knees

            Mary Davis (and Dana too) was all 'I am the second coming of St.Patrick ... I will be the catalyst for recovery, [I paraphrase, of course], I will heal the sick, make poor the rich'. That's very sweet of you both but you'll not find those powers in any article of the Irish constitution.

            Wishing wells, Wedding bells, mornings of dew ... Dana's hopes they dolely knell

            Sen David Norris ... I was so keen on his candidacy and yet he's there at the front of the class all the time and saying 'Sir, sir, me sir ... I know the answer, sir, sir'. Sorry senator but it's back to filling the ink wells for you.

            Summertime, wintertime, and springtime too ...sadly, Dana can only mime

            The Gallagher bloke ... I don't think he's considered the job spec too carefully here. He came across well, but has he honestly conisdered the implications of all his business affairs having to go into a blind trust for fully seven years, his entrepreneurial career going on spec for seven years, his personal life going out the window for seven years. He can't have and that would have to be the first flawed judgement of his presidency.

            Budding trees, autumn leaves, a snowflake or two ... Dana, no, t'won't be you

            'Musster MaaGinnesss' ... Well, the bandit boyoh is on the podium for all the wrong reasons. Frankly, I feel his presence rather sullies the whole process. Essentially, he's a provincial politician and I have no conception that he cares particularly for the men and women of the Irish Republic. He is the mistress of his party and his movement and there is scarce a doormat tough enough for him to wipe his muddied boots on before entering Aras un Uchtarain.

            Dana dear ... All kinds of everything remind me not to vote for you

            Which leaves Michael D Higgins ... a figure who reminds us that poetry is not just something that is written in the pages of a book, but can actually be spoken, and not only in high falutin' terms, but as a means of expressing the everyday sentiments of our lives ... er, that is to say, he speaks most eloquently. Already, before taking office, he has demonstrated a dignified and statesman like presence of character and, besides which, I love the equilibrium of a titular head of state who will spend his mornings greeting distinguished vistors, representaives etc. while in the afternoon he can retire to his firelit upstairs study with its view of the wondrous Phoenix Park and compose such verses as he might be inclined to.

            Truly, a man above the fray.

            SHB

            Comment

            • PatrickOD

              #36
              Thanks amateur, and Shb, for as good an analysis of the campaign as I've seen. I'm not sure my newspaper of choice is adding much more - apart possibly from reporting bottom of the barrel tit-bits, presumably in the name of balance. Norris and McGuinness have borne the brunt of malice, in one case well-deserved, in my opinion. I'm surprised that Gallagher has polled so well, and disappointed that the third Mary has failed to make traction*. Dana's a sweet(Ish) girl, and, what's this you call the other fellow? Michael D has been popping up as a good guy for many years now, and I'm pleased that he is favoured to be the choice of the voters. I take the support of amateur and Shb to be good omens for his victory.

              * I offer 'traction', in the sense above, as the next buzz word, cliche, platitude.... whatever.

              Comment

              • Stillhomewardbound
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 1109

                #37
                Alas, following my weekend perusals, it seems that this campaign has already reached Kurtzian proportions ( a la 'the horror, the horror!'), and still with over two weeks to go. Heaven knows what's in store for us in that time.

                I can say this much, Senator Norris has proved beyond doubt, that you can only fall on your sword once. Leave it at that and the public at large will hail you a most noble man, a hero. Therefore to unimpale yourself and re-enter the fray with such an unseeming and dilletante gusto can only have you marked for a fool.

                You are quite right, POD, in noting the high polling of Sean Gallagher and I do not for a moment begrudge him that. I must, in all fairness, concede that he appears to have struck a chord with the Irish people, however, such is that response that I am very concerned that his rating is down as much to his 'celeb' quotient, and I'm fearful that we might be at an age where our elections for public office will transfer from the polling stations to the 'X' Factor studios.

                As for Mary and her tractor, er sorry, her 'traction' ... it's the perfect phrase to describe someone's campagin not quite getting ot grips with the campaign tarmac. Indeed, it should be in the OED Psepoholgists dictionary, if it's not there already.

                SHB

                Comment

                • french frank
                  Administrator/Moderator
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 30249

                  #38
                  Originally posted by PatrickOD View Post
                  Is it PR?, you ask Lat. Yes it is, and the transfers will be crucial.
                  Puzzlingly, I believe the Irish constitution does specify election by 'proportional representation', the system being STV. However, I don't understand how you can have a 'proportional' result if there's only one winner. I would have called it preferential voting by IRV (or AV). Patrick?
                  It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                  Comment

                  • PatrickOD

                    #39
                    As I understand it, ff, when there is only one winner, AV is considered to be the equivalent of STV, which is used in elections where there are multi-seat constituencies.

                    Comment

                    • french frank
                      Administrator/Moderator
                      • Feb 2007
                      • 30249

                      #40
                      Originally posted by PatrickOD View Post
                      As I understand it, ff, when there is only one winner, AV is considered to be the equivalent of STV, which is used in elections where there are multi-seat constituencies.
                      As I understand it too, POD! The 'proportionality' refers to the ratio in which the seats are distributed among the contesting parties. When you only have one seat available, it can't be distributed proportionally: the winner takes the seat - that's all. As to the way the ballot papers are filled in, there's no difference between STV and AV: candidates are ranked according to preference.
                      It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                      Comment

                      • PatrickOD

                        #41
                        Originally posted by french frank View Post
                        the winner takes the seat - that's all. As to the way the ballot papers are filled in, there's no difference between STV and AV: candidates are ranked according to preference.
                        But, of course ff, you would want to make the point that the winner is the one, regardless of tribal first preferences in the case of multiple candidates, who commands additional broad support from across the electorate. And the filling in of the ballot papers is simplicity itself, not to mention that the voters have a sense of having done their democratic duty to get the best possible result. Yes?

                        Comment

                        • french frank
                          Administrator/Moderator
                          • Feb 2007
                          • 30249

                          #42
                          Originally posted by PatrickOD View Post
                          But, of course ff, you would want to make the point that the winner is the one, regardless of tribal first preferences in the case of multiple candidates, who commands additional broad support from across the electorate. And the filling in of the ballot papers is simplicity itself, not to mention that the voters have a sense of having done their democratic duty to get the best possible result. Yes?
                          Oh, Patrick, I never thought of that!
                          It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                          Comment

                          • PatrickOD

                            #43
                            ....Anyway, the pot is still boiling. Michael D seems to be the only one with the sense to keep to the old adage 'Whatever you say say nothing.'

                            Comment

                            • Stillhomewardbound
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 1109

                              #44
                              Quite so, PatrickOD, and is that not the first line on the imagined job spec.

                              Say nothing, but say it with all the eloquence you can muster.

                              I rather think it is what QEII has been doing most successfully for coming up to sixty yearsl.

                              Comment

                              • PatrickOD

                                #45
                                Originally posted by Stillhomewardbound View Post
                                Say nothing, but say it with all the eloquence you can muster.
                                Well, Shb, plenty was said in this debate last night. But how much of it was heard - apart from what one wants to hear?

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                                It is rather long, but much shorter than a Wagner opera, and there's quite a lot of the magnificent Miriam. A few fireworks here and there.

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