Cage rage

**Mary Chambers** · 22-09-11, 07:27

Agreed. It is very alarming, totally uncivilised.

EDIT: I have just heard the father of one of the boys say that he wasn't doing this he would only be hanging round on street corners. At eight? Inadequate parenting is obviously at the core of this. There seems to be some official questioning about whether the children are in physical danger, but I haven't heard anyone talk about the moral or psychological danger, which seems even greater to me.

**Flosshilde** · 22-09-11, 08:40

Originally posted by Mahlerei View Post

This is just obscene. What parent would allow their 8 or 9y/o sons to do this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-14998593

Not so much allowing it, but encouraging it.

But plenty of boys are encouraged (not just by their parents - but by other 'responsible' adults) to join boxing clubs & martial arts clubs & fight - what's the difference? There isn't this sort of 'moral outrage' over that. (to make it clear, I think boxing is barbaric, & those who watch it & chear on the boxers even more barbaric)

**Flosshilde** · 22-09-11, 08:42

Originally posted by mercia

............... marginally better than looting shops, perhaps .............?

Is this supposed to be an 'ironic' response to the father's 'hanging around on street corners' comment, or what you really think, mercia?

**Mary Chambers** · 22-09-11, 08:45

Originally posted by Flosshilde View Post

But plenty of boys are encouraged (not just by their parents - but by other 'responsible' adults) to join boxing clubs & martial arts clubs & fight - what's the difference? There isn't this sort of 'moral outrage' over that.

There is from me!

One of the objections to the cage fighting seems to be that it takes place in a totally adult environment - adults drinking and shouting to encourage them to fight.

**Norfolk Born** · 22-09-11, 09:07

I wonder what cavatina would have had to say on the subject?

**Flosshilde** · 22-09-11, 10:15

Originally posted by Mary Chambers View Post

There is from me!

One of the objections to the cage fighting seems to be that it takes place in a totally adult environment - adults drinking and shouting to encourage them to fight.

I really meant in the media. I also object strongly to boxing - have done from when my father watched it on TV when I was a child.

**Anna** · 22-09-11, 12:16

It's disturbing because (according to the latest report in The Telegraph) it was a sold-out ticket only performance in licensed premises before an audience of 250 adults and the videos of the fights immediately went on the Internet. Between bouts a scantily clad ring-girl paraded. No mention was made what time of night this took place.

Fine for children to learn Judo or other martial arts but this is normally done in a leisure centre with a trained instructor, competitions are not held in front of an audience of punters who have paid for tickets and have no connection with the families of the boys involved. Somehow the whole thing is just downright creepy (and money is being made out of it) but the Police say there are no grounds for them to take any action.

Flossie, my father learnt to box when young in order to protect himself from gangs (he was a lanky beanpole with specs and therefore an easy target) and then had a life-long love of the sport, but went to watch it live as mother would not permit him to watch on tv as she thought it barbaric. None of my brothers were encouraged to take up boxing.

**Lateralthinking1** · 22-09-11, 12:20

Cage fighting is one of the fastest growing sports. There is potentially huge money in it. These adults appear to have made a long-term decision. Turn the kids' childhoods into a money making venture. Otherwise, they would probably be doing something like motocross. Incidentally, I think what it says more than anything is the extent to which the capitalist system is making white working class men weird and pathetic. When you think about it, it is bit like them crowding together to get boozed up and boorish over a fight between two guinea pigs which they have chosen to lionize. This is obviously saddening and could only only be improved by a fairer deal for them. They are almost certainly the most discriminated against group of the last 20 years.

**Stillhomewardbound** · 22-09-11, 12:35

Whether one likes it or not, boxing is a sport, surely, with very clearly defined rules and supervision ('Marquess of Queensbury rules will apply!').

This cage fighting is of a wholly different character predicated, it seems to me, on naked and violent aggression and an immature machismo culture that I cannot see benefitting any young person.

**Mary Chambers** · 22-09-11, 12:36

Naive as I am, I didn't realise money was involved! I agree with Anna - it is creepy.

My brother was forced to box at school. He and his friends made private agreements do it badly and not to hurt each other. Not all boys are aggressive, and it shouldn't ever be encouraged, in my view.

Peter Pears claimed that one of the things that turned him to pacifism was winning a boxing match at his prep school, and being profoundly shocked by what he had done.

**Lateralthinking1** · 22-09-11, 13:06

It is closely related to MMA - Mixed Martial Arts - which my neighbour, a celebrity, promotes. There is quite a lot of celebrity buy-in to cage fighting itself - http://www.metro.co.uk/showbiz/84214...price-in-tears. This is how those involved in the clip will have heard of it before it was taken forward in the locality.

MMA has all the hype of wrestling but claims, probably accurately, to involve a high degree of skill. It has none of the gentlemanly ethics though that help to justify boxing. Apparently, some of the guys in the City who chuck our money down the drain often have a go to boost their adrenalin for the next gamble.

While noting that it appears to represent a further step backwards for evolution, I have concluded that it is best to shrug the shoulders. However, there is a world of difference between this kind of event when it involves adults and when it involves children. I do object strongly there. Actually, I have never heard of that before but I guess in fairness the interviewees explained how it wasn't quite the same, not that this persuades me much.

Nick Clegg's mate, Louis Theroux, of whom I am not a huge fan, made a documentary a while back. It was about wrestling in America which involved virtually no rules and the use of barbed wire and glass. People were shown with their faces ripped open and saying that they enjoyed the experience. Of course, it was fully expected that medics would race each other to repair the damage. Perhaps that's why they don't have an NHS.

Anyhow, that is the next step onwards. While it is not permitted here currently, what concerns me most is that the lightweights in Parliament would give in to it. Just as they reach eighteen, who knows? These kids could then be the men who become lambs to the money makers' slaughter. It is an obligation on society to ensure that they are not lured into mental illness of that kind on account of others' animal greed.

(Actually, this comment on the BBC's feedback says it all really and far better than I could do - Quote - "I'm 39 years of age. I have practised martial arts from the age of 12. My grandad was an armed forces boxing champion, my great grandad was a bare knuckle street fighter in the east end of London (which I don't recommend). I love proper & right spirited boxing and martial arts. But when I saw this I was disgusted. The 'feel' of this event betrays a lack of responsibility & of love for these boys.")

**Mahlerei** · 22-09-11, 13:15

This 'sport' goes against my every instinct as a parent; it may be legal but surely it should count as exploitation of minors? I wonder how much the boys' parents get paid? I can't imagine they allow their kids to do it for free. And for that one father to say it's this or loitering on street corners just beggars belief.

**greenilex** · 22-09-11, 13:46

I expect pit-bull owners and cockfighters "love" their valuable possessions, too.

Anthony Burgess foresaw this kind of thing...

**Anna** · 22-09-11, 14:11

Originally posted by Mahlerei View Post

And for that one father to say it's this or loitering on street corners just beggars belief.

There may be no choice for them and the parents may be badly informed if there is a choice. Put Preston + deprivation into google it'll come up with a lot of reports in pdf format showing how badly deprived the area is in all aspects. If there is a leisure centre offering martial arts, sports, swimming, etc., the parents may not be able to afford it or even the transport to and from. This isn't me making excuses for the parents and whether the boys have to pay for training to appear at that Club (if there is any training) I don't know.

We have in our family also living in Lancs a 9 year old boy, his after school training for football and cricket takes place at the school during term time but other other activities for him and his 7 year old sister (swimming, kayaking, drama, dance, - Brownies I think is free?) has to be paid for, some of these activities a good 20 min car ride away. A different middle-class world I'm afraid from, perhaps, the environment that those Preston boys are growing up in? (Apologies to any Preston residents on the MB for generalisations)

Cage rage

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