Essential Classics??

[BetweenTheStaves]

......

Interestingly (interesting to me), in 1998 I passed over Beethoven's Op. 131 which I was almost certainly 'not ready for' but which now is among the works which I value most highly - more than the Strauss or Monteverdi.

I'm wondering exactly what happens when 'one is ready' for a different piece of music or genre as I know exactly what you mean. How does one get to that stage? Is it an age thing? Perhaps to be explored in a different thread (if it's not been covered already')?

[Anna]

I switched off about 5 minutes into the 'I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here' chat bit.

I only heard it from 10.45 onwards, so it was a bit of chat then the complete trumpet thingy and then straight on to the Tchaik. So, certainly in the second half nothing to frighten the horses.

[mercia]

well while we find out about Mr du Sautoy's favourite biscuit today, I shall listen to the National Theatre of Brent re-creating the Suffragette Movement over on R4 - very funny (IMH)

[french frank]

Bits I heard sounded good, but I suspect there won't be much really out of the ordinary in terms of repretoire, which would be a big shame with someone as outstanding ads RC at the helm.

He's only on every other week ...

Next week Sarah Walker and the TV gardener.

[BBMmk2]

So far, 50/50 with this programme.

[Richard Tarleton]

He's only on every other week ...

Next week Sarah Walker and the TV gardener.

Which one? Surely not.....

[mercia]

do you think the guest comes into the studio every day for his chat or would it have been one long conversation that's been chopped into five pieces?

[antongould]

Hard to keep track with 4 threads, at least, covering the "New Schedule" and apologies if this has already been mentioned - but the concluding gesture of the Private Passions in chunks is to buy the guest a musical pressie. Poor Rob (no Michael Berkeley he IMHO!) bought Marcus a CD and played a track after which he was advised to take it back to the shop!

[pmartel]

Assuming that people need a "gentle introduction" is simply daft
in my experience some of the best introductions to orchestral music (for example) are
Ligeti :Atmospheres
Xenakis: Metastasis

when I played Volumina to a group of 16 year olds earlier this year they were all excited about hearing more organ music , if I had started with the complete works of Karg Elert

I'd definitely listen to Unpopular Classics

I've been a lover of classical music since I can remember.

I was doing my 'public speaking' essay on Tchaikovsky in grade 6.

Much to my mother's horror, I had stumbled into my father's old 78's which my mother buried away.

It's been a major part of my life and as you say, do people really need a 'gentle introduction' Once you know the major melodies of most works, exploration takes over.

I was getting my feet wet with Mahler and Wagner in grade 9 high school

[DracoM]

It is part of the patronising notion that children cannot rise to challenges unless tasks / targets are broken into bite-sized breakfast chunks. Cannot respond to bigness, or passion, or driving rhythms. And adults likewise dipping their toe in must feel 'intimidated' by the passion and dynamism of the Rite of Spring, or the menacing stillness of Sibelius 7, or Elliott Carter's Str Qts. Why? Just play music and let the people decide, not the so-called 'guests' arranging the cupcakes on the plate for them. FGS, they are adults, not babies.

What becomes increasingly clear is that the BBC does not trust their audience any more, and has to keep packaging to make it seem acceptable. 'Medicine in a mess of cherries'. BUT then pretend it's easy. It isn't. Great art / music / literature is not by definition easy and is frequently plain disturbing. And as soon as you posit that statement, you realise that the BBC is frankly decreasingly interested in conducting expeditions to the Everests in terms of analysis, education, debate, but increasingly rabid for lowest common denominator ratings disguised as 'accessibility'.

Q: What do you do, RW, with those you hopefully 'win' with your accessible programming strategy? Do you go on developing their awakened appetites, or do you do the CFM thing and make sure you keep them 'relaxing' and 'admiring the wallpaper' lest they get uncomfortable by challenge and leave? If so, then you are writing the abdication of R3 from its long-cherished responsibility to the cultural mix of the UK.

Great art is not susceptible of that kind of Sunday supplement approach. If you teach children to read, do you stop at Janet and John, or do you go on progressively looking for ways to challenge them into reaching out? Is R3 / Trust satisfied with numbers, or is it still committed to challenging radio to develop past that? The whole thrust of the new schedules seems to demonstrate that a significant gear shift away from challenge and into 'smooth classics' has been given approval by the Trust. Do they realise fully what they have done?

I keep thinking with some sorrow of those broadcasters still working for R3 I used to respect and what they must be thinking as they sit there spinning CDs like DJs on R2.

[decantor]

Eloquently spoken, Draco (#85). I share your view.

But we are swimming against the tide. Heaven knows what evidence RW & Co had in front of them in deciding these things, but the evidence we have is the success of ClassicFM. Apparently the majority of those who turn to classical music at all are simply desiring to ‘chill out’ rather than meet challenge; they want music that conforms to their mood, not music that informs their sensibility; they welcome Rach 2 and Lark Ascending on a daily basis because it’s nice and comforting. Similarly, in literature, they do not in all honesty want to progress much beyond Janet and John – perhaps just as far as Jilly (Cooper) and Dan (Brown). We live in a stressful age, and the role of music is to soothe and assuage, not to demand the ascent of Everests. Therefore RW most likely sees himself as heroically meeting a national need by providing a viable alternative to CFM, and takes a special pride in offering more knowledgeable presenters of the same fare.

And where does that leave us? Out in the cold (the Himalaya was ever chilly!). Only when Radio 33 is opened will our needs be met. We might just as well campaign for an hour every day of ‘gentle’ classical music on all the Beeb channels, with an august Radio 3 (of the sort we dream of) as the goal for all whose interest is captured. It could work, but of course it won’t happen.

OTOH, I regard the whole notion of ‘accessibility’ as absurd: who can tell what sounds will light the fire? For my first ten years of life, I suffered in dutiful silence as my father listened to Beethoven and his beloved Delius. Then, in the space of a few months, I heard Mars (thanks to Quatermass on TV) and Britten’s Ceremony, and sang a treble solo aria in a full performance of Messiah. I was away on a lifelong journey – yet what do those three pieces have in common? Zilch. Conclusion: just play enough high quality music, with or without a narrative, and someone somewhere will be hooked. Yet the Beeb, hamstrung by its licence fee and unsure how best to fulfil its charter, dare not make such an investment. What we are witnessing is a tragedy where information overload and fashionable perceptions supersede vision and commitment. Where the BBC could have led, it has elected to tag along subserviently. It now takes ‘comedy’ proms and ‘film music’ proms to lend populist respectability to the notion of a ‘Prom’ concert. God help us all.

[MickyD]

Brilliantly put, decantor.

[teamsaint]

Just worth saying, I think, that there is othing wrong with presenting music in an interesting and innovative way. if guests or presenters have intersting and illuminating things to say, then great.

trouble is, if the content is uninspiring, then good presentation is a waste of time.

[Roehre]

Excellently put, DracoM and Decantor

[Nick Armstrong]

Just to add my three penn'orth to MickyD and Roehre's comments, I think Draco M and Decantor say it all