Essential Classics??

[Chris Newman]

Isn't this the sort of thing which "Your Hundred Best Tunes" used to do well. Alan Keith's presentation style would not be popular today perhaps (whether it would be called minimalist or funereal is, I suppose, a matter of interpretation), but he introduced the popular classics without unnecessary chat or patronising attempts to grab an audience.

However I recall that it was not on R3.

How did I find my way into R3 without these promised 'entry points'? I am thinking about a different age I know (1960s), but we just jumped in and tried it. Some things were too much at first, but we gradually widened our knowledge and interests. I think the same thing happened when our generation began to explore serious literature and broadsheet newspapers - no watered down attempts to catch us, we just accepted challenges. Have people really changed that much?

There was a similar programme on Radio 3 with Eric Robinson (a mediocre conductor on TV and the BBC Light Programme and brother of Stanford R) who played lighter fare on records rather like Brian Kay used to. He was pleasant and introduced me to works like King Christian II (Sibelius) and composers like Constant Lambert. I think it was on Sunday evenings as the live Sunday concert was in the afternoon.

Having said that, ER also gave weekly concerts on TV to spread classical music with a leavening of comedy thrown in: I remember Eric Sykes, Dora Bryan, Spike Milligan, Jimmy Edwards, Beryl Reid, Charlie Drake or The Kay Sisters might be on one moment and then Tito Gobbi or Inia Ta Wiata (and other wonderful stars) singing something by Verdi or a musician playing something beautiful. It tended towards variety but at least "classical music" was often on radio and TV on a weekly basis and was not just something for the cognescenti. There was much to be said for the dumbed down TV and Radio of those days. Just occasionally something grabbed you or someone was grabbed.

[VodkaDilc]

There was a similar programme on Radio 3 with Eric Robinson (a mediocre conductor on TV and the BBC Light Programme and brother of Stanford R) who played lighter fare on records rather like Brian Kay used to. He was pleasant and introduced me to works like King Christian II (Sibelius) and composers like Constant Lambert. I think it was on Sunday evenings as the live Sunday concert was in the afternoon.

Another programme I recall from my youth was Semprini Serenade. This really was 'lighter fare' and was on the Light Programme on Sunday afternoons. However, between the arrangements for piano and orchestra, there were some popular solos (Chopin, Debussy and so on), as well as movements from the Concerto war-horses (Grieg, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninov). Like the Eric Robinson and Alan Keith programmes, Semprini filled a need and was very popular. I do not recall what he was like as a pianist (not that I would have been able to judge at that age).

[antongould]

But even in those days most people weren't interested in Radio 3. Why should they be now?

Sorry but unusually I don't understand your point - I'm not saying these types of "show" will make most people appreciate classical music I am saying that, possibly sadly, in my view 24/7 old style Third Programme fare will not bring in the younger listeners of today and so the audience will decline over time.

[Serial_Apologist]

Another programme I recall from my youth was Semprini Serenade. This really was 'lighter fare' and was on the Light Programme on Sunday afternoons. However, between the arrangements for piano and orchestra, there were some popular solos (Chopin, Debussy and so on), as well as movements from the Concerto war-horses (Grieg, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninov). Like the Eric Robinson and Alan Keith programmes, Semprini filled a need and was very popular. I do not recall what he was like as a pianist (not that I would have been able to judge at that age).

There was certainly far more contemporary music and 20th century music on R3 in the '60s and '70s, in all styles. My father, then retired and with time on his hands, scrupulously recorded whatever 20th century composers had their music played, on a reel-to-reel tape recorder, and it would be a feast of new (to me, but also premieres) music, every time I visited home. In the late '70s, one of the Young Musicians of the Year was brought round, and on being shown the collection, declared that in all probability the BBC wouldn't mind getting their hands on it! Of course, in those days, recording broadcasts was supposedly against the law. By the time he gave up as a copnsequence of infirmity, he had 350 tapes - goodness knows how many months' worth of modern music. It was a tremendous learning experience, one which has stayed with me since and, together with reading, given me bearings in music of the 20th century. I very much doubt if future R3 listeners will be afforded similar.

S-A

[french frank]

Sorry but unusually I don't understand your point - I'm not saying these types of "show" will make most people appreciate classical music I am saying that, possibly sadly, in my view 24/7 old style Third Programme fare will not bring in the younger listeners of today and so the audience will decline over time.

My point was that it never did bring in an entire generation - just a minority. So it would hardly be surprising (and not very different from previous times) if the majority of young people were not interested.

A minority audience doesn't need many new listeners to 'replenish' it. The current fare will surely be off-putting to many young people. It seems like cardy and slippers entertainment to me - a very unappealing image.

[barber olly]

On the positive side, providing the information is accurate Rob has an early surprise for us. On Thursday the 11.00 work is Sibelius 2 Cleveland Orchestra Szell. Now I am familiar with his Concertgebow recording having owned the LP and now the CD. Checking with Amazon there is a Sib 2 recorded live in Tokyo in 1970, which must make it one of his last recordings. This is the RC of CDM, maybe there is light at the end f Dumbdown Tunnel!

[BBMmk2]

There is a similar threrewad on the new layout of R3 programmes.

I also mentioned that is this R3 dumbing down, aka Classic FM!!

[Andrew Slater]

I wonder if there is any connection between the introduction of this programme and the axeing of Melodies for You from Radio 2 at the end of August?

[french frank]

I'd missed that story, Andrew

In other words, we really do become 'Three for All' - for Radio 2 listeners, for Radio 4 listeners and for Classic FM listeners.

Just not for Radio 3 listeners who have been listening for five years or more and take the music seriously - rather than using it as the usual background listening, music while you work, music to relax to.

[Al R Gando]

I also mentioned that is this R3 dumbing down

Did you? How very prescient of you, without even hearing the program!

[Al R Gando]

On the positive side, providing the information is accurate Rob has an early surprise for us. On Thursday the 11.00 work is Sibelius 2 Cleveland Orchestra Szell. Now I am familiar with his Concertgebow recording having owned the LP and now the CD. Checking with Amazon there is a Sib 2 recorded live in Tokyo in 1970, which must make it one of his last recordings. This is the RC of CDM, maybe there is light at the end f Dumbdown Tunnel!

You're wasting your time, Barber-Olly. It's already been decided that this is dumbing-down, ahead of the actual broadcasts.

[antongould]

I'd missed that story, Andrew

In other words, we really do become 'Three for All' - for Radio 2 listeners, for Radio 4 listeners and for Classic FM listeners.

Just not for Radio 3 listeners who have been listening for five years or more and take the music seriously - rather than using it as the usual background listening, music while you work, music to relax to.

One thing that does intrigue me in this "debate" and I refer to Old Grumpy's fine post on the other, parallel, thread - do none of the Anti Breakfast/Essential Classics brigade "listen" to music while they spend, what must be a not inconsiderable amount of, time on these Boards? Don't worry this is only 1 question not 20!

[french frank]

One thing that does intrigue me in this "debate" and I refer to Old Grumpy's fine post on the other, parallel, thread - do none of the Anti Breakfast/Essential Classics brigade "listen" to music while they spend, what must be a not inconsiderable amount of, time on these Boards? Don't worry this is only 1 question not 20!

I'm sure they do - but I don't personally.

Whether that means that they also want presenters chatting away with guests, or constantly repeated repertoire would be Question No 2.

antongould, since you're an arrival from Radio 2 the new Radio 3 is aimed at you, which makes you very lucky. But is that the only argument you have - that Radio 2 listeners now have a new station to listen to when R2 programmes don't appeal and they want to switch over to something else? And that Classic FM listeners also now have a second choice?

I have no choice for music but Radio 3 but there's nothing now that has enough depth to tempt me. If I just want a bit of music, I might as well put on a CD of my own. The whole point about Radio 3 was that it was part of catering for all audiences. But it no longer does.

In the end, all you're saying is: 'Isn't it good that I've got your radio station now? Yippee!"

[antongould]

In the end, all you're saying is: 'Isn't it good that I've got your radio station now? Yippee!"

Sorry that's not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that yes the type of programmes we endlessly discuss did bring me and others "across" and having come across my tastes, thanks to R3 and these Boards are widening by the day. So R3 has to have a way of attracting new listeners that works otherwise in these days of the never ending cuts it will be gone and surely no one wants that. I have probably used the cricket analogy before - I loved old style 3 day everyone played everyone, no elite squads, English cricket - but to survive in an increasingly commercial world it had to change to something I hardly recognise and don't like 25% as much, but it survives.
So it's not I've got your radio station now "yippee" it's R3 is still here and hopefully will still be here for my children (should their brains ever grow) and their ilk for decades to come "yippee"!

[Norfolk Born]

One thing that does intrigue me in this "debate" and I refer to Old Grumpy's fine post on the other, parallel, thread - do none of the Anti Breakfast/Essential Classics brigade "listen" to music while they spend, what must be a not inconsiderable amount of, time on these Boards? Don't worry this is only 1 question not 20!

Yes - but it's usually jazz, rock or pop, or the sort of music played by the estimable Russell Davies - standards, music from the dance band era and the like.
However, at other times of the day I may well want something more nourishing to listen to, and seriously concentrate on; sadly, it's increasingly unlikely that Radio 3 will be broadcasting anything that fits the bill. So it's off with the radio and on with the CD player.
The point has been made repeatedly that, for every new listener that's attracted, however briefly, to the morning programmes, an existing listener may well switch off - in some cases until lunchtime or later, and in some cases for good. Is this REALLY what those in charge want?