Rugby World Cup 2011

[Anna]

I think it's 50/50 as to what the result will be. Priestland is out, replaced by Hook. Lydiate is still doubtful.

You wouldn't believe the hype down here, it's rapidly rising to hysterical levels. Barry Morgan, the ArchBish of Wales is pictured praying for Our Boys whilst wearing Come On Wales wristbands ....... the Millennium Stadium will have over 55,000 watching and images beamed over to NZ ....... I have yet to hear whether Max Boyce will be attending ........ all business are giving dispensation for workers to wear the red jersey on Friday ....... and now Dave is flying the Red Dragon over No. 10

The one, in advance, preparing for the worst, consolation that people are voicing is that we won't really mind as France did the rugby world a favour in kicking out the England squad. Meanwhile the Red Rose politics seem to be getting ever more tangled ......

[aeolium]

two cheers for Wales any way

You ungenerous soul, Calum - at least Wales won with style when they were winning. England's Grand Slam-winning side of the 1980s was so dour and dull.
I remember some of those Welsh games in the old National Stadium - most memorable was the J P R Williams tackle on the French wing Gourdon in 1976 as he seemed certain to score and win the match for France. In those bleak days, rugby provided something to cheer about (perhaps recession brings out the best in Welsh rugby).

Wales haven't done well against France of late so the Frenchies must go in as favourites, but let's hope for a good game anyway.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

ungenerous soul

blighted mate blighted, the supremacy of Welsh Rugby was awesome and never ending .... by the early sixties i had given up on the game it was too depressing!


and in defence i would add that i have not raised a single cheer for the England Team at this World Cup ... i am with Brian Moore in that i do not think they realise quite what a shambolic disgrace they have made of it ...

by all means a good game and i fancy Wales against the French but not so much against the Australian or NZ Teams ...

[mercia]

zut alors - commiserations

[DracoM]

Wales did not have the goal kickers. End of.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

... to lose by one point whilst a man down for 3/4ths of the game was heroic stuff and yep those kicks would have done it ...and they scored the only try ... world class mistake by th eref tho

[amateur51]

A debatable ( that's all - debatable) red card that might better have warranted a 10 minute sin bin, leaving Wales exposed but also able to have one of their star players on for the rest of the game. I feel sorry for officials in finals sometimes - not letting passions boil over is one thing, but ruining the spectacle is also a consideration. Jones would still have hit the post, mind. A creditable entertaining passionate performance by Wales and I feel sad that the journey ended in controversy.

Still I'll be supporting France in the final ;ok:

Allez les bleus!!

[Anna]

I think it should have been yellow, there was no malice in it. Not saying anything against Rolland but did you see his reffing in the Samoa v Wales game? Still, there's not many teams that could play that length of time with 14 men and not get totally slaughtered. Heigh Ho. It's only a game <she said through gritted teeth> but on France's performance <mutter of Pyrrhic victory> I can't see them making much impression on either the Wallabies or the Kiwis in the final.

[Nick Armstrong]

I can't see them making much impression on either the Wallabies or the Kiwis in the final.

I'm afraid I think that is 100% correct...

[gurnemanz]

I think it should have been yellow, there was no malice in it. Not saying anything against Rolland but did you see his reffing in the Samoa v Wales game? Still, there's not many teams that could play that length of time with 14 men and not get totally slaughtered. Heigh Ho. It's only a game <she said through gritted teeth> but on France's performance <mutter of Pyrrhic victory> I can't see them making much impression on either the Wallabies or the Kiwis in the final.

Surely the point is that even without malice that kind of tackle (turning a player upside down and dropping him on his head) can break a player's neck and maim him for life. Matt Dawson on Five Live fully supported the red card as did the chief referee, Ed Morrison.

Wales certainly deserved to win and I also can't see the French making much of a final of it. On the plus side, all the Welshmen and women of my acquaintance (eg at out choir practice on Monday evening) who would have been insufferable, have been nicely thwarted.

[Anna]

I'm not sure about the semi tomorrow, NZ against Argentina looked beatable. I have family in Oz (one of which achieved fame by committing suicide off Milsom Point whilst Sydney Harbour Bridge was being built) and also I have family in NZ (sheep farmers) so, obviously, it's a close call as to which to cheer for. On balance, it has to be sheep!

[aeolium]

Surely the point is that even without malice that kind of tackle (turning a player upside down and dropping him on his head) can break a player's neck and maim him for life.

The more dangerous spear tackle is where the player is tackled, turned over and driven down to the ground, whereas Warburton released the French player when he realised that the latter's light build had caused him to be turned over. There are also illegal tackles in the lineout which can cause players to fall from height in a dangerous way but these are rarely punished with worse than a yellow card. Most of the commentators on today's game seem to think that the red card was a harsh punishment. It was a shame as it killed the game as a spectacle, although Wales could still have and arguably should have won. France will be obliterated by whichever team wins tomorrow.

[Anna]

Before the kick-off we were dubious about Rolland as being very anti-Welsh. Look at the Samoa v Wales game. He allowed the Samoans to pile into the breakdown willy-nilly and was not fussed about whether or not they were on their feet. They got away with with coming straight through the rucks and taking Wales off the ball. Maurie Faasavlu fully exploited this amongst others. It resulted in Wales being cleared out at breakdown, either conceding possession or penalties. Looking again, the French player gets up on his feet, this should have been referred to TMO. It is an injustice

Then there's Bryce Lawrence and the Boks v Oz. The refs can be very idiosyncratic

[gurnemanz]

The more dangerous spear tackle is where the player is tackled, turned over and driven down to the ground, whereas Warburton released the French player when he realised that the latter's light build had caused him to be turned over.

Warren Gatland declared: "He's lifted him, that's a yellow card, but he's not driven him into the ground." Referees' rules do, however, make clear that you do not have to force the player down for there to be an option of showing the red card:

"In 2007, the IRB Council approved a Laws Designated Members Ruling which
essentially made it clear that tackles involving a player being lifted off the ground and
tipped horizontally and were then either forced or dropped to the ground are illegal and
constitute dangerous play.
At a subsequent IRB High Performance Referee Seminar at Lensbury referees were
advised that for these types of tackles they were to start at red card as a sanction and
work backwards." (quoted from here: http://ht.ly/6Yd0Y)

[LHC]

The more dangerous spear tackle is where the player is tackled, turned over and driven down to the ground, whereas Warburton released the French player when he realised that the latter's light build had caused him to be turned over. There are also illegal tackles in the lineout which can cause players to fall from height in a dangerous way but these are rarely punished with worse than a yellow card. Most of the commentators on today's game seem to think that the red card was a harsh punishment. It was a shame as it killed the game as a spectacle, although Wales could still have and arguably should have won. France will be obliterated by whichever team wins tomorrow.

I'm afraid Rugby's laws are very clear on this matter. If you tip another player beyond the horizontal, it is your responsibility to return him safely to the ground. There was clearly no malice in Warburton's tackle, but by letting him go in mid-air, he actually compounded his error.

While we can bemoan the affect the red card had on the game, the referee's decision was 100% correct and completely in line with the laws of the game and with recent IRB directives that dropping a player onto the ground in the way that Warburton did should be punished with a red card.

The less said about ITV's commentary team the better. All of them were clearly ignorant of the laws of the game and I thought their vociferous criticism of the referee was disgraceful.