The BBC are off to Salford

[Old Grumpy]

As a Southerner bred (but not born), in my view there is nothing darn Sarf that can touch the North of England - the scenery, the air, the beaches, the space...

Yes, we may not have as many "cultural" opportunities as London, but we certainly have enough.

[Norfolk Born]

It is when the BBC is on to Salford that the locals have to worry. No more street corner shenanigans. Know what I mean. Alastair Cook loved the place so much he spent the rest of his life in America. Still, all will be forgiven if they give that dull building a metaphorical coat of red paint by naming it "Ewan MacColl House". He, at least, knew that romance is wherever you care to see it:

I met my love by the gas works wall Dreamed a dream by the old canal I Kissed my girl by the factory wall Dirty old town Dirty old town
Clouds are drifting across the moon Cats are prowling on their beat Spring's a girl from the streets at night Dirty old town Dirty old town
I Heard a siren from the docks Saw a train set the night on fire I Smelled the spring on the smoky wind Dirty old town Dirty old town
I'm gonna make me a big sharp axe Shining steel tempered in the fire I'll chop you down like an old dead tree Dirty old town Dirty old town

Come to think of it, don't like the sound of that axe. Too close to home on every wavelength.

Just for the record, his name was Alistaire Cooke.

[Lateralthinking1]

Nah. (Alfred) Alistair Cooke. Just one e which is the nearest the punters at the happy Hacienda ever got to saying "just say no". The spelling I used originally was based on one of my personal rules: "turn every name you can into one of a famous England cricketer". Incidentally, I do take the point about northern charm. I lived there for three years among white roses.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Surely it should be

The BBC IS off to Salford ?????

Absolutely right, MrGG.

[Flosshilde]

Yes, we may not have as many "cultural" opportunities as London, but we certainly have enough.

Which is the whole point really - if you have enough 'cultural' opportunities that will give you a rich and varied cultural life, and as many as you can managewhy do you need more? It simply means that you miss more.

(I'd just like to point out that Salford and Manchester are still pretty much the deep south to me.)

[Alain Maréchal]

There are at least two parallel conversations going on in this thread, but I'll keep to mine and hope we can hear ourselves.

"That's a pretty ridiculous litmus-test". I think, Anna, its a pretty good litmus test. It's not where the consumers of culture or opinions live that was the spring of my argument, but where the purveyors of them work, and I think they need to work at the hub, not the rim. I don't see why the word "provincial" itself gives offence - it means in the provinces, and I think any organisation pretending to speak internationally (or nationally) should not be there. Anybody living in a province who objects to the term is surely displaying an unwitting inferiority complex.

Flosshilde, I don't think it is necessary to spend any time in any of those cities to know how they rank, but since you ask I spent a month in each, on secondment, as I did in many places in Western Europe. London and Paris, while I lived in them (for ten years in each case) beat the whole lot hollow. Even though I have lived in a province, and now do so again, I could not exist without rapid access to them both.

[Flosshilde]

I don't see why the word "provincial" itself gives offence.

It's not the word - it's the way you use it - and you were definitely using it to mean 'inferior'. I happen to think that Glasgow isn't inferior to London in the range and quality of its cultural life (patisseries are a different matter )

[Vile Consort]

"Alain, what exactly do you mean by 'provincial'?"

I think there's a quite simple test. Take a random date in the season - lets say the second Thursday in November, and check what's on. A city without the widest (note 'the widest' not 'wide') selection of journals, magazines, television chains, concerts, recitals, films, musicals, plays, sports meetings or events at whatever level of culture is provincial.

By this test, every city in the world except one is provincial. The one that isn't is the one that comes top of some sort of league table league table arrived at by counting events, publications, television channels et. al.

But in fact, the league table (and hence the test) isn't even well-defined. It might vary depending on the day chosen, and there is no clear rule as to whether an event, publication, etc. is to be counted or not. I believe it would be impossible to draw the line between those that count and those that don't.

The test isn't even simple. It would be a far from simple task to identify all the events going on in a town of even moderate size.

No, this test won't do!

[Alain Maréchal]

We are discussing national provinces, so I think in the context its clear that I am not setting up a worldwide league table, and I'm surprized that anybody could read my mind and know what I mean by a particular word.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

We are discussing national provinces, so I think in the context its clear that I am not setting up a worldwide league table, and I'm surprized that anybody could read my mind and know what I mean by a particular word.

The word is often used at a "put-down" and your posts do appear to suggest this.

[Ariosto]

Flossie

Re Glasgow

I always thought you lived in Wales. Have you moved recently or have I got that wrong?

[Norfolk Born]

'Provincial' is one of those words that has acquired an additional, slightly derogatory, meaning. (Another is 'pedestrian', which is now often used in the sense of 'commonplace', 'unimaginative' or 'lacking in ambition or enterprise'.)
The word that, for me, often comes to mind in connection with the BBC is 'metrocentric'. I think it needs to become much more less metrocentric...

[Anna]

"That's a pretty ridiculous litmus-test". I think, Anna, its a pretty good litmus test. It's not where the consumers of culture or opinions live that was the spring of my argument, but where the purveyors of them work, and I think they need to work at the hub, not the rim. I don't see why the word "provincial" itself gives offence - it means in the provinces, and I think any organisation pretending to speak internationally (or nationally) should not be there

Oh, I see now. The purveyors of culture need to work in London otherwise that which they purvey does not have any credibility and is not to be recognised internationally or nationally as having any worth.

So the award winning natural history unit at Bristol working with David Attenborough isn’t worth a second glance, nor is Dr. Who (oh, I thought Dr. Who was international viewing now?) or Torchwood, or Sherlock (winner of 5 BAFTAs), Being Human, the new Upstairs Downstairs, to name but a few, produced in Cardiff and filmed a lot in Wales . How strange then that the BBC are expanding and constructing a bigger drama production centre in Cardiff as part of the BBC's commitment to double TV network production from Wales by 2016?

[salymap]

Haven't we got enough enemies abroad without bits of the UK fighting each other for pre eminence. I thought I lived in Kent until a few years ago when we became a London borough, but still keep our Kent address. For the record, I have never felt inferior, superior, or any of this and love what little I have seen in the rest of the country, Wales and Scotland. I had no idea such strong feelings would be aroused by this post, part wind-up as it is. At the risk of being laughed at, working in music,class didn't seem to matter either. As an ordinary person I met and got on with all sorts of musicians; love of the music was what mattered. Cor,what a kerfuffle.

[Anna]

saly, I know it's a wind-up, and it's worked!! Perhaps us Provincials should don our smocks and clogs, be ever so 'umble and know our place in the grand order of things?