Energy Prices payment methods

[french frank]

Meanwhile I appear to have generated refunds and a lower monthly payment. Lord alone knows why.

I had a local, ex-BT, engineer to install a new master telephone socket. He said BT's strategy was called 'confusion marketing'.

[DracoM]

Too right....................

[antongould]

I'm in the Octopus camp now having been acquired from the defunct Bulb. The process of changing is baffling as I still get Bulb emails and account statements that differ quite substantially from those sent by Octopus. I supply meter readings to both but presumably Octopus will eventually subdue its apparently reluctant takeover victim. Meanwhile I appear to have generated refunds and a lower monthly payment. Lord alone knows why.

Well this, like so much else, is Ofgem’s fault - when there were far less suppliers they did an assessment of supplier’s MDD billing and procedures … lots of highly paid consultants who knew nothing and borrowed our watches to tell us the time …… at the time 3 suppliers, including the one I worked for, showed in detail on the bill how any new instalment amount and, where appropriate, refund had been calculated - the rest didn’t. Instead of mandating that all suppliers did this the report just waffled and contained no worthwhile conclusions ….. so now I think no supplier does …..

[oddoneout]

In "happier" times there was some point in at least looking at alternative suppliers/tariffs as there were differences. Choosing DD was cheaper(initially, but then they started charging those who didn't use DD rather than offering a discount for DD, which in my book was not the same), as was duel fuel, where applicable. There were also various "inducements" to new customers for the first year, headlined as "we will give you £X cashback", which I found when I read the small print were not as they seemed, indeed one company had a minimum spend exclusion which meant that I wouldn't have got anything back. I have changed companies a couple of times due to house moves and have had two changes forced on me in the last 15 or so years. I tended to work more on the basis of choosing a tariff from the existing company rather than changing company - several fixed term tariffs were worth doing - the last one, a 3 year fix, finished a few months after everything went into freefall so the difference was very noticeable...
Even before all the recent turmoil all the offerings started to seem much of a muchness - all assumed you would be DD, the unit rate you pay is fixed regionally( I don't understand why this is still the case) which affects margin for special offers, dual fuel discount didn't seem to figure so much (assumption (erroneous) that most households are?). The differences seemed mostly to do with the various permutations of Green marketing - some of which had more substance than others. I don't know if any inducements were/are offered for smart meters as it doesn't apply in my case.
In terms of the OP one thing I would say is - don't wait for meter readers - they don't come often enough these days (Is it now 3 estimated bills to every read one that's the requirement? - and that's quarterly) and if the energy company estimates your bills the estimate is unlikely to be in your favour. DD will be overcharging during the summer to cushion the winter and the amount should bear some relation to the annual consumption and forecast figures - which you are/should be sent each year, so can work out if so inclined. In theory DD payments can be challenged, but I don't know how successful that is although I believe things have moved slightly in the customers' favour now, but in the past I have had problems with both energy and telecomms companies.
Don't opt for a pre-payment meter - there are changes proposed but when they will be implemented is anyone's guess and meanwhile they are the most expensive way to pay( and always were more expensive than having an account) - and come with the ongoing risk of "self-disconnection". They highlight the standing charges issue - as those continue to eat into the credit on the meter even if you are using no power at all.
I am just so fed up with the situation I am in at the end of 3 years messing about while SSE transferred to OVO that I have become rather passive - like FF I value my time higher than the few pounds I might save by changing(even assuming that is an option), but since the whole energy set-up seems to be simply a way of funneling excessive amounts of money to shareholders and CEOs rather than providing a service there doesn't seem much point in expending effort engaging in the system; any apparent benefit to me will simply be illusory - a smoke and mirrors exercise on the part of the marketing department - and, like Covid, the Ukrainian conflict will be used as an excuse for a long time.

[oddoneout]

Well, I'm probably (unlike some here ) at the lower end of the income scale; and half the reason for that is that I feel my time is worth more than my money. How much time do people spend ferreting around for the 'best deal' on everything they buy, and then wondering whether there might be something better still? Always on the look-out for bargains? I'm happy to pay a fair amount for what I want/need as long as its within my normal limit. For energy, I trust my supplier 100% not to be cheating ANY of its customers, and the peace of mind that gives is worth the time spent seeing if I can save a tenner a year with another supplier - until I think there might be a better deal somewhere else and then …

Bank rates being low (my current account pays 0% at the moment), an earmarked nest egg for paying my energy bill is just as safe with the energy supplier as in my account. The only sign that I'm not actually poor is that I'm not interested in money. I'd probably say I'm 90% frugal and 10% sybaritic.

I tend to your view on chasing money saving offers. I differ with the assessment of risk in bank v energy company though. Apart from my ingrained objection to lending money interest free to multi-million pound companies, the credit that energy companies build up still isn't protected, unlike the banks which are covered(even if not in full) by the FSA guarantee.

[antongould]

In "happier" times there was some point in at least looking at alternative suppliers/tariffs as there were differences. Choosing DD was cheaper(initially, but then they started charging those who didn't use DD rather than offering a discount for DD, which in my book was not the same), as was duel fuel, where applicable. There were also various "inducements" to new customers for the first year, headlined as "we will give you £X cashback", which I found when I read the small print were not as they seemed, indeed one company had a minimum spend exclusion which meant that I wouldn't have got anything back. I have changed companies a couple of times due to house moves and have had two changes forced on me in the last 15 or so years. I tended to work more on the basis of choosing a tariff from the existing company rather than changing company - several fixed term tariffs were worth doing - the last one, a 3 year fix, finished a few months after everything went into freefall so the difference was very noticeable...
Even before all the recent turmoil all the offerings started to seem much of a muchness - all assumed you would be DD, the unit rate you pay is fixed regionally( I don't understand why this is still the case) which affects margin for special offers, dual fuel discount didn't seem to figure so much (assumption (erroneous) that most households are?). The differences seemed mostly to do with the various permutations of Green marketing - some of which had more substance than others. I don't know if any inducements were/are offered for smart meters as it doesn't apply in my case.
In terms of the OP one thing I would say is - don't wait for meter readers - they don't come often enough these days (Is it now 3 estimated bills to every read one that's the requirement? - and that's quarterly) and if the energy company estimates your bills the estimate is unlikely to be in your favour. DD will be overcharging during the summer to cushion the winter and the amount should bear some relation to the annual consumption and forecast figures - which you are/should be sent each year, so can work out if so inclined. In theory DD payments can be challenged, but I don't know how successful that is although I believe things have moved slightly in the customers' favour now, but in the past I have had problems with both energy and telecomms companies.
Don't opt for a pre-payment meter - there are changes proposed but when they will be implemented is anyone's guess and meanwhile they are the most expensive way to pay( and always were more expensive than having an account) - and come with the ongoing risk of "self-disconnection". They highlight the standing charges issue - as those continue to eat into the credit on the meter even if you are using no power at all.
I am just so fed up with the situation I am in at the end of 3 years messing about while SSE transferred to OVO that I have become rather passive - like FF I value my time higher than the few pounds I might save by changing(even assuming that is an option), but since the whole energy set-up seems to be simply a way of funneling excessive amounts of money to shareholders and CEOs rather than providing a service there doesn't seem much point in expending effort engaging in the system; any apparent benefit to me will simply be illusory - a smoke and mirrors exercise on the part of the marketing department - and, like Covid, the Ukrainian conflict will be used as an excuse for a long time.

Well said and all, sadly, so true ………

[DracoM]

Thx
And 'sadly' hardly gets close.
'What a bunch of wily-minded, blood-sucking sharks the energy companies are' is how I might be tempted to put it!

[antongould]

Thx
And 'sadly' hardly gets close.
'What a bunch of wily-minded, blood-sucking sharks the energy companies are' is how I might be tempted to put it!

…. and I for one wouldn’t disagree ….

[french frank]

…. and I for one wouldn’t disagree ….

Sadly, I've never come across one. But you do get what you pay for.

[alywin]

But a 'small reduction' from what and how was this verified compared to other methods of payment?

It's definitely more that if you decide not to pay online/have paper billing/use the phone/pay by cheque or some other antediluvian system that the energy companies don't like, they will clobber you for it. Quite substantially in some cases.

Bank rates being low (my current account pays 0% at the moment), an earmarked nest egg for paying my energy bill is just as safe with the energy supplier as in my account.

If you have anything beyond your everyday needs in your bank account, you could easily be getting 3% in a savings account now. Or there are some regular savings deals ranging from fairly reasonable to extremely generous (although the latter tend to be tied to you having a current account with the same provider). Just in case you're interested.

[french frank]

If you have anything beyond your everyday needs in your bank account, you could easily be getting 3% in a savings account now. Or there are some regular savings deals ranging from fairly reasonable to extremely generous (although the latter tend to be tied to you having a current account with the same provider).

Aren't they paid gross now? I haven't filled in a tax return for years now (HMRC knows exactly what I have) and I don't want the faff of having to start again for a few pounds that I don't absolutely need [too much information, ff].

Just in case you're interested.

Exactly the words of my doctor when she told me the result of a blood test. In fact, information, including interest rates, is always interesting.

[Cockney Sparrow]

……I haven't filled in a tax return for years now……

Lucky you ! Their online system for filing is good and reliable I have to concede. Its just the tax system and the stripping away of sentient human beings to respond that create a great deal of frustration…..

Aren't they paid gross now? .... In fact, information, including interest rates, is always interesting.

For anyone interested in tax and interest:

With interest rates rising at long last, I paid close attention to where my savings were parked (for the first time in quite a few years). I don’t take their advice but have used some of the information on rates etc on this site as well as the press:

https://savingschampion.co.uk/

Interest is nearly always paid gross now. As to tax:

https://www.gov.uk/apply-tax-free-interest-on-savings

“Personal Savings Allowance:
You may also get up to £1,000 of interest and not have to pay tax on it, depending on which Income Tax band you’re in. This is your Personal Savings Allowance.”

Also, if one's income is less than £17,500 the tax free amount could be higher – up to £5,000. (Also on that web page)

[Petrushka]

I haven't filled in a tax return for years now.

Last one I did was in 1974 just as I started work. Never done one since and the only contact I've had with HMRC is when they change my tax code or send a rebate. Long may it stay that way!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm with EDF, on a prepayment meter since I moved into this house, just over three years ago. EDF say I'm on the list for a smart meter, but tell me it isn't yet possible install one in my area.
I suspect this is a tall story, as we have all the connections one could which for: full fibre broadband (new cables having been laid in the street, and connected directly into the house), 4G/5G mobile signal and a reliable landline.

Prepayment is fine in the warmer months, as there's no standing charge, but in the winter, regular top-ups are very expensive and inconvenient. Still, I'm moving shortly to a house with an impressive array of solar panels.

[oddoneout]

I'm with EDF, on a prepayment meter since I moved into this house, just over three years ago. EDF say I'm on the list for a smart meter, but tell me it isn't yet possible install one in my area.
I suspect this is a tall story, as we have all the connections one could which for: full fibre broadband (new cables having been laid in the street, and connected directly into the house), 4G/5G mobile signal and a reliable landline.

Prepayment is fine in the warmer months, as there's no standing charge, but in the winter, regular top-ups are very expensive and inconvenient. Still, I'm moving shortly to a house with an impressive array of solar panels.

I am more than a little puzzled by this as standing charges apply on a daily basis.

I hope your move to the solar panel house doesn't get you embroiled in more convolutions with an energy company. The mechanisms for dealing with domestically generated power/feeding into the grid were not always easy prior to the collapse of so many energy suppliers, and the migration of so many customers following that has not helped. My son had finally got the tariff arrangements sorted out with his original supplier after the PV array went live and then they went bust; he is still arguing with the company he was moved to. Fortunately he has the skills and persistence to keep up the pressure, but even so he has on occasion been thrown by some of the calculations and exchanges there have been.