Pronunciation watch (cont) - Janacek

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  • Richard Tarleton
    • Jan 2025

    Pronunciation watch (cont) - Janacek

    Well well. I was talking today to a student from the Czech Republic, on holiday in this part of the world, and I asked him where exactly he was from. He said, Brno, adding in case I didn't know that it was the home of Janacek. So I immediately asked the obvious question. I was always under the impression that it was JANacek (as I think Andrew MacGregor says) and not JanAcek as per James Jolly and Suzy Klein. In fact when I heard Rob C say JanAcek recently I naturally assumed it was wrong. But no - not only is the stress definitely on the second syllable, but it's far from always the case (as I thought I'd read somewhere) that the stress in Czech normally falls on the first syllable.

    This may all be old news to many MBers but I pass it on for what it's worth. And apologies to Rob, James and Suzy for miscalling them.
  • jillfc

    #2
    Years ago I was in browsing Foyles' music section when I became aware that the person standing next to me was Charles Mackerras. We got into conversation about life, oboes, the universe, Janacek and everything. I can assure you that he pronounced it with the accent on the second syllable. I haven't wholly followed his example (largely on account of not wanting to sound weird, I tend to stress all syllables equally) but I can't think of a higher authority.

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    • Richard Tarleton

      #3
      Great story jill!

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      • VodkaDilc

        #4
        Originally posted by Richard Tarleton View Post
        Well well. I was talking today to a student from the Czech Republic, on holiday in this part of the world, and I asked him where exactly he was from. He said, Brno, adding in case I didn't know that it was the home of Janacek. So I immediately asked the obvious question.
        What about the second obvious question, to which I have never heard a definitive answer: what is the correct pronunciation of Brno?

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        • Richard Tarleton

          #5
          He pronounced it Brno - slight emphasis on second syllable,slightly rolled R

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          • jillfc

            #6
            When you say second syllable, RT, I'd agree with you - but only if you see the word as having three syllables. So it's sort of burno - the emphasis on the ur (which is in fact a schwa) with, as you say, a slightly rolled r to follow.

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            • vinteuil
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 12954

              #7
              Originally posted by Richard Tarleton View Post
              ..., but it's far from always the case (as I thought I'd read somewhere) that the stress in Czech normally falls on the first syllable.
              ... I wonder if you were thinking of Hungarian, where I think the stress does quite often fall on the first syllable? (SARkozy, SZEKely... )

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              • french frank
                Administrator/Moderator
                • Feb 2007
                • 30507

                #8
                I don't believe this

                The thing about English speakers is that they find it difficult to pronounce a long vowel without stressing it. The second 'a' of Janáček (á) is long. The first first 'a' is shorter. My theory is that English speakers are hearing a stress when in fact they are merely hearing a long syllable.

                This is a matter of phonetics rather than language as such.

                From the point of view of phonetics, I agree with this: "Stress is always on the first syllable in Czech"

                Or, perhaps, this: "Stress falls almost always on the first syllable. As in French, accents (á, é, etc.) sometimes affect the pronunciation of vowels, but do not imply stress (e.g. Janáček = yah-nah-chek)

                Or this: "Stress is always on the first syllable of a word."

                Best of all: "Primary stress falls on the first syllable, and there is secondary stress falls [sic] on long vowels."

                Or: "Differences in vowel quantity have also been preserved in Czech and Slovak, in which new long vowels developed as a result of contraction. A fixed stress accent is found in the West Slavic languages as well as Macedonian, in contrast to Proto-Slavic, Serbian and Croatian, Slovene, Bulgarian, and the East Slavic languages. In Czech and Slovak, as well as in Sorbian and Southern Kashubian, stress is fixed on the first syllable of the word, but in Polish, Eastern Slovak, and Southern Macedonian, it falls on the next to the last syllable of the word"

                And so on...

                In French, the stress, such as it is, is (almost) invariably on the final. But, yes, I once heard Boulez say something suspiciously like RA-vel. And so he might. But on another occasion he might (more 'correctly') say Ra-VEL. In any given circumstance there may (or may not) be a reason for deviation. A friend of mine swears he heard Bryn Terfel 'insisting' that his name was pronounce Tair-VEL. I'm sure my friend was, on that occasion right. It doesn't alter the fact that Bryn would most certainly agree that his name was stressed on the first syllable.

                Such are the mysteries of stress
                It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

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                • StephenO

                  #9
                  Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
                  ... I wonder if you were thinking of Hungarian, where I think the stress does quite often fall on the first syllable? (SARkozy, SZEKely... )
                  That happens in quite a few languages including Hungarian, Finnish and Czech. Even though the second syllable of Janacek contains a long 'a', the stress still falls on the first: YA-nar-chek.

                  Finnish seems to cause R3 the most problems (particularly our Rob), possibly because the stress in Sibelius falls on the second syllable. But, then, Sibelius isn't a Finnish name, it's Swedish.

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                  • jillfc

                    #10
                    On re-reading, I realise that post #6 doesn't seem to make much sense. What I was trying to get at is that, as I hear it, the word does sort of divide into three syllables, which I can perhaps best describe as bu -rrn-o. As I hear it, the first almost disappears, the second is the point of stress and the third fades. But I am not a linguist so, experts, please forgive me.

                    I should perhaps add that my much-loved copy of the Shelter Cookery Book (Penguin, 1971) contains a recipe contributed by Vilem Tausky (whom I hope fellow MBers will remember fondly) for "Brains from Brno". (This was well before BSE scares.)

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                    • Chris Newman
                      Late Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 2100

                      #11
                      If you would like to hear Sir Charles say Janacek and Brno listen to the fascinating and delightful interview on this thread:

                      The 58th International Prague Spring Music Festival ended this week, featuring many distinguished musicians from all over the world and also the Czech Republic. As part of…


                      To my ear he says Yan-ARE-check.

                      Comment

                      • StephenO

                        #12
                        Sorry, ff - you beat me to it!

                        Off topic slightly but, given that the final consonant in French is normally silent at the end of a word, how come the 'z' in Boulez and Berlioz is always pronounced?

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                        • jillfc

                          #13
                          I take your point, ff: but I assure you that in the course of my brief acquaintance with C Mackerras his pronunciation of 'Janacek' corresponded, both in stress and vowel sounds, with 'anarchic'.

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                          • french frank
                            Administrator/Moderator
                            • Feb 2007
                            • 30507

                            #14
                            Originally posted by StephenO View Post
                            Off topic slightly but, given that the final consonant in French is normally silent at the end of a word, how come the 'z' in Boulez and Berlioz is always pronounced?
                            I'd have to make a guess on that. The 'z' would have been pronounced in Old French and I suppose that proper names were more resistant to change than words that were in common usage, the pronunciation being handed down through the generations. I knew someone (English) with the surname Deprez, and in that, too, the final 'z' was pronounced.
                            It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                            Comment

                            • VodkaDilc

                              #15
                              Originally posted by jillfc View Post
                              When you say second syllable, RT, I'd agree with you - but only if you see the word as having three syllables. So it's sort of burno - the emphasis on the ur (which is in fact a schwa) with, as you say, a slightly rolled r to follow.
                              Whatever the correct pronunciation, I think I can assume that my Welsh Geography teacher in the 1960s was incorrect in calling it Bruno.

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