The Joys of Vinyl

[pastoralguy]

I’m very anti vinyl, and Have posted many screeds here on the forum. There remain a few lps that I am interested in that are not currently available digitally and I am thinking of getting the DJ table-Technics 1500 Direct Drive. I found a restored one for what appears to be a fair price and am sorely tempted

I’ve often wondered if the recording companies allowed vinyl in the 70’s and 80’s to become an inferior product as a way to soften up the public for the introduction of cd. If so, it worked! (Mind you, there was an oil shortage at the time).

[Dave2002]

I have been sans turntable for about 5 years, but there are a number of second hand lp stores in my vicinity, and I have come across several lps that I would like to have that are not currently available digitally. And to be honest back in the day I had always wanted the D.J. table (Technics SL-1500) I'm hoping that a Direct Drive will eliminate speed instability and bloated bass so common to belt drives, even expensive ones. The seller has great feedback and I talked with him and he swears the motor is as quiet as Boris Johnson's Ethics Advisor. I figure that if he is lying (the seller--not B.J.), at $150 I can probably sell it off for parts and be whole again. So I will post back once I have it

Re the Analogue or Death crowd how many of them listen to music which is deliberately manipulated, if not by the recording engineers but by the musicians themselves? Much of pop music has “effects” and it doesn’t always matter whether that is analogue or digital. Before I started experimenting with DAWs I tended towards a purist view, but actually it’s possible to change the character and ambience of recordings by digital effects - and arguably improve them. I think it’s also possible to do similar alterations with analogue equipment. I have heard some very good analogue recordings.

For playback I still feel that to get the kind of quality from even a modest (but good) CD player, that it is appropriate to spend around ten times more. I have heard turntables and pickups which sounded very good, but mostly I feel that records, turntables and pickups have had their day.

Good luck with your revisitation if you go for it, but I think you may revert back to your currently declared aversion. I have several turntables (maybe 5) waiting to be put back into working order - but I’ve had them for years now, and I haven’t so far found the time or strong urge to do that.

[richardfinegold]

Re the Analogue or Death crowd how many of them listen to music which is deliberately manipulated, if not by the recording engineers but by the musicians themselves. Much of pop music has “effects” and it doesn’t always matter whether that is analogue or digital. Before I started experimenting with DAWs I tended towards a purist view, but actually it’s possible to change the character and ambience of recordings by digital effects - and arguably improve them. I think it’s also possible to do similar alterations with analogue equipment. I have heard some very good analogue recordings.

For playback I still feel that to get the kind of quality from even a modest (but good) CD player, that it is appropriate to spend around ten times more. I have heard turntables and pickups which sounded very good, but mostly I feel that records, turntables and pickups have had their day.

Good luck with your revisitation if you go for it, but I think you may revert back to your currently declared aversion. I have several turntables (maybe 5) waiting to be put back into working order - but I’ve had them for years now, and I haven’t so far found the time or strong urge to do that.

I just pulled the trigger and ordered the DJ table. it will be a few weeks but I will channel my inner Arnold and I will return. I'm with you Dave, I largely suspect this will be a seldom used paperweight, but at least I will be able to play the occassional album that isn't digitalized and I do like hanging out in the used lp stores. And your point about the processing of most forms of music is excellent. There is an audiophile fetish about wanting "to get close to the master tape" but what the heck is the master? The singers and instrumentalists may have been recorded in different continents months apart.

[Dave2002]

Part of my ambition for retirement was to digitise some LPs, as I feel sure that some made around 1960-1970 have good or acceptable, or even very good LP pressings, but some of those either did not have preserved master tapes, or if the master tapes do exist, the quality has deteriorated so much that going back to those to “remaster” any new format is never going to give good results, unlike some of the Decca and EMI - maybe even CBS, efforts, where tapes were rescued just in time.

I intended to set up a replay system (high quality) into a high quality DAC so as to digitise the LPs I was hoping to rescue. However I just never got around to it. Once the LPs had been digitised they would not be played again.

[richardfinegold]

Part of my ambition for retirement was to digitise some LPs, as I feel sure that some made around 1960-1970 have good or acceptable, or even very good LP pressings, but some of those either did not have preserved master tapes, or if the master tapes do exist, the quality has deteriorated so much that going back to those to “remaster” any new format is never going to give good results, unlike some of the Decca and EMI - maybe even CBS, efforts, where tapes were rescued just in time.

I intended to set up a replay system (high quality) into a high quality DAC so as to digitise the LPs I was hoping to rescue. However I just never got around to it. Once the LPs had been digitised they would not be played again.

I have similar retirement ambitions

[gurnemanz]

I digitised some LPs over ten years ago, mainly out of curiosity to learn about the process and to see what results I could obtain. I had a piece of software for inserting track breaks (can be tricky because not all silences mean a new track is starting). It also had de-clicking and de-hissing options. The results were pretty good and I still play some of them. It was interesting to do, but fiddly and time-consuming and I ultimately stopped bothering. Anyway, most LP recordings can eventually be tracked down as CD or download.

[smittims]

I'd be surprised if some of my LP's are available now in any format.: e.g.

Rudolf Maros, Symphony for strings.

Robert Still: Concerto for strings

Balakirev Symphony no.1; RPO/Beecham (the 1955 EMI recording)

Beecham's mono 'Symphonie Fantastique ' from 1957, not his 1959 stereo remake.

And his 1946 'Songs of Sunset'.

..anyway, playing LPs is fun!

[Alison]

It’s really good to see you back Smitty!

It’s been a while.

[hmvman]

..anyway, playing LPs is fun!

That is the key point!

[richardfinegold]

I digitised some LPs over ten years ago, mainly out of curiosity to learn about the process and to see what results I could obtain. I had a piece of software for inserting track breaks (can be tricky because not all silences mean a new track is starting). It also had de-clicking and de-hissing options. The results were pretty good and I still play some of them. It was interesting to do, but fiddly and time-consuming and I ultimately stopped bothering. Anyway, most LP recordings can eventually be tracked down as CD or download.

I did the same, probably more than 10 years ago. I concur with you that since most music is available digitally it's just easier in the long run to purchase it. My main outlier for availabilty seems to be the recording career of Karl Ristenpart as it seems. as of this writing, to be larghely unavailable digitally, or randomly contained in megabox collections that have some other theme, such as a 35 disc Jean Pierre Rampal collection. However these old Nonesuch lps are easily available in the resale stores by me.
Is Audacity still the state of the art digitializing software? Like Guremanz it is a long time since I have tried this

[Dave2002]

Anyway, most LP recordings can eventually be tracked down as CD or download.

Even when some recordings are available, some of the transcriptions are really terrible - and I’m fairly sure that for some of those the LPs are preferable. Otherwise I agree - that if good transcriptions are available then DIY versions are an unnecessary faff.

[richardfinegold]

Even when some recordings are available, some of the transcriptions are really terrible - and I’m fairly sure that for some of those the LPs are preferable. Otherwise I agree - that if good transcriptions are available then DIY versions are an unnecessary faff.

I always enjoy comparing two Mahler Symphony recordings, of the Third and Fourth, respectively. Both feature Jascha Horenstein conducting, the LSO and LPO, respectively. The LSO recording of the Third was a pathbreaker in its day. It was recently rereviewed by Gramophone, and they complained that the CD transfer ruined the recording with greatly distorted balances. The Fourth with the LPO was released on CfP originally and those lps are terrible, very dim sounding documents. The CD version was much better.

So it can go either way

[hmvman]

Is Audacity still the state of the art digitializing software? Like Guremanz it is a long time since I have tried this

I've never used Audacity. I have an old version of Adobe Audition which still works and the noise reduction/de-clicking tools are very useful. I digitise LPs via a USB interface.

[Dave2002]

Is Audacity still the state of the art digitializing software? Like Guremanz it is a long time since I have tried this

Audacity is pretty good as an audio editor, though I think some more expensive software might be even better for some things. DAWs are also very good - for example for adding in “ambience”, though they wouldn’t help much with over reverberant recordings. Also to get more out of DAWs it would help to have more separate inputs - something the recording companies do have access to with their multi-track recordings. OTOH many of the really good earlier recordings were made with only a few microphones. Really depends what kind of processing one wants to do with LPs. Probably click and hiss removal or suppression, and maybe also low frequency rumble or other LF noise suppression. I even had to do LF suppression on one EMI CD recording - I used Audacity - as there was audible mains frequency noise - but it has to be done “gently” so as not to remove all the wanted LF. That’s perhaps where a DAW could help by generating two DAW tracks - one with the unwanted LF noise removed and one “as is”. Then listen to the tracks combined, and whenever there is significant bass end “wanted” sound bias the mix towards the track without the noises removed - as the wanted sound should mask the noise. Too severe noise removal at the low end will tend to sound thin, but switching rapidly between tracks can also give very obvious audible effects. Trying to patch in “good” sections can be surprisingly difficult. One has to take a view on whether it is worthwhile as it might take quite along time to get a really good result, rather than one which is merely “good enough”. After all most of us are likely to be amateur music enthusiasts rather than recording engineers trying to make a living by selling remastered copies.

[LeMartinPecheur]

And made from a material which is toxic to the environment and very difficult to recycle.

Thanks very, very much for that, Bryn! I shall pass it on to Mrs LMP - might stop her ever sending my c2000 LPs to landfill!

Must dash - currently building new shelves for them. And the 78s...