Would Jubileevit?

[crb11]

I don’t think these roles would necessarily be politicised to be honest .

Those examples don't convince me, I'm afraid, since they're high profile (so people can see what impact you're having without you having to run a campaign demonstrating it) and while Burnham and Street have successfully depoliticised their roles to an extent, they both retain the party label, and I could see either struggling if they decided that the interest of their city was seriously out of line with the interests of their national party. So yes to a handful of elected mayors in our biggest cities, although I note Bristol have decided they don't want one - but you're a long way from arguing for "every one from the sheriff to the local head librarian".

[teamsaint]

I can see the attraction of giving local people the say, but I can't see how you avoid it devolving into a combination of party nominees or just local populism, both of which are what is happening in practice already. For instance, almost all the Police and Crime Commissioners were elected with a party label - and that's a role you want to be as independent as possible. Our local previous elected Mayor was a clear populist who spent his time making promises he had no way of fulfilling, but was otherwise a waste of space (and there were some allegations made that he was corrupt) until he got voted out next time round.

One problem as I see it is that the skill-set required to do these kinds of roles well doesn't intersect well with those required to run a successful campaign, so to get elected you either need to plug into a party machine, or manage to do so as an independent, which tends to push you in the populist direction. The other is that even as an interested outsider it's quite hard to do the research sufficient to work out which of the possible candidates is worth voting for - and I don't feel that most voters are willing to make the effort anyway.

Isn’t this a kind of “ If I wanted to get there I wouldn’t start from here “ problem?

Just IMHO we need to develop a culture of localised responsibility and decision taking,right across society as far as is practically possible . And in some areas, it probably doesn’t make sense. EG policing structured at county level , rather than say city level ( in a county such as Hampshire) seems a sensible solution.
How you develop that culture, I really don’t know. But it does have to start somewhere, and in creating such a culture and systems, not everything will go smoothly. But I do think it is a really important , in fact vital aspiration. The fact that the currently dominant political parties will inevitably get a disproportionate say in the early stages of change shouldn’t be an absolute barrier to change.

[crb11]

Isn’t this a kind of “ If I wanted to get there I wouldn’t start from here “ problem?

Just IMHO we need to develop a culture of localised responsibility and decision taking,right across society as far as is practically possible . And in some areas, it probably doesn’t make sense. EG policing structured at county level , rather than say city level ( in a county such as Hampshire) seems a sensible solution.
How you develop that culture, I really don’t know. But it does have to start somewhere, and in creating such a culture and systems, not everything will go smoothly. But I do think it is a really important , in fact vital aspiration. The fact that the currently dominant political parties will inevitably get a disproportionate say in the early stages of change shouldn’t be an absolute barrier to change.

My argument isn't about taking responsibility at the local level, it's the impracticability of doing so at the individual level, because the amount of information needed to make a reasoned choice isn't available, and I wouldn't have time to process it anyway. So, for instance, to appoint the person in charge of the county's libraries, you would currently go through a job appointment process, in which, let's say, five people invest 20 hours each. I don't have 20 hours, nor do I have access to the candidate's CVs, nor do I know very much about the details about how libraries function, nor about the particular state of my county's libraries. If there's a direct election, then all I have to go on is the candidate's statements, which I might spend (optimistically, if we're also electing another 30 posts at the same time as in the US model) an hour on. I don't think I'm going to be able to make a meaningful choice in that case, and in fact the winning candidate (assuming that there's no major ideological difference) is going to be the person who is best at writing election statements, not the best librarian.

Now there is a role for individuals in these kinds of decisions which works, and I'm part of one. There's a major proposed development on the edge of Cambridge, and they are seeking non-expert and local input, but what they've done is pick a group of about 20 local people, largely at random (but representative of the population at large) and we're having a series of meetings, online and person, to talk through the relevant issues, so they can get local opinions, but from people who are informed and have had a chance to think through things sufficiently. Probably we'll have spent 50 hours in formal meetings by the end of the process, but considerably more just reflecting through the kinds of questions in our own time. I think this kind of citizen panel would work well in the other cases we're talking about - for instance they could be brought in both as part of the appointment process for a Police and Crime Commissioner, but also as a sounding board during their time in office, to keep the police accountable to "the informed public".

[Ein Heldenleben]

My argument isn't about taking responsibility at the local level, it's the impracticability of doing so at the individual level, because the amount of information needed to make a reasoned choice isn't available, and I wouldn't have time to process it anyway. So, for instance, to appoint the person in charge of the county's libraries, you would currently go through a job appointment process, in which, let's say, five people invest 20 hours each. I don't have 20 hours, nor do I have access to the candidate's CVs, nor do I know very much about the details about how libraries function, nor about the particular state of my county's libraries. If there's a direct election, then all I have to go on is the candidate's statements, which I might spend (optimistically, if we're also electing another 30 posts at the same time as in the US model) an hour on. I don't think I'm going to be able to make a meaningful choice in that case, and in fact the winning candidate (assuming that there's no major ideological difference) is going to be the person who is best at writing election statements, not the best librarian.

Now there is a role for individuals in these kinds of decisions which works, and I'm part of one. There's a major proposed development on the edge of Cambridge, and they are seeking non-expert and local input, but what they've done is pick a group of about 20 local people, largely at random (but representative of the population at large) and we're having a series of meetings, online and person, to talk through the relevant issues, so they can get local opinions, but from people who are informed and have had a chance to think through things sufficiently. Probably we'll have spent 50 hours in formal meetings by the end of the process, but considerably more just reflecting through the kinds of questions in our own time. I think this kind of citizen panel would work well in the other cases we're talking about - for instance they could be brought in both as part of the
appointment process for a Police and Crime Commissioner, but also as a sounding board during their time in office, to keep the police accountable to "the informed public".

Might have been wrong about the librarian but in most New York Counties the following positions are generally electable
Chief Exec
Comptroller and or collector of Taxes
Head or District Attorney
Sheriff
That’s quite a power base.
There are also referenda on every conceivable local issue. Just one example - a campaign to make the budgets of New York State libraries determinable by annual vote. The proposers believe this will protect funding. In the UK local council spending is almost entirely determined by central govt and it has been hammered .

[teamsaint]

My argument isn't about taking responsibility at the local level, it's the impracticability of doing so at the individual level, because the amount of information needed to make a reasoned choice isn't available, and I wouldn't have time to process it anyway. So, for instance, to appoint the person in charge of the county's libraries, you would currently go through a job appointment process, in which, let's say, five people invest 20 hours each. I don't have 20 hours, nor do I have access to the candidate's CVs, nor do I know very much about the details about how libraries function, nor about the particular state of my county's libraries. If there's a direct election, then all I have to go on is the candidate's statements, which I might spend (optimistically, if we're also electing another 30 posts at the same time as in the US model) an hour on. I don't think I'm going to be able to make a meaningful choice in that case, and in fact the winning candidate (assuming that there's no major ideological difference) is going to be the person who is best at writing election statements, not the best librarian.

Now there is a role for individuals in these kinds of decisions which works, and I'm part of one. There's a major proposed development on the edge of Cambridge, and they are seeking non-expert and local input, but what they've done is pick a group of about 20 local people, largely at random (but representative of the population at large) and we're having a series of meetings, online and person, to talk through the relevant issues, so they can get local opinions, but from people who are informed and have had a chance to think through things sufficiently. Probably we'll have spent 50 hours in formal meetings by the end of the process, but considerably more just reflecting through the kinds of questions in our own time. I think this kind of citizen panel would work well in the other cases we're talking about - for instance they could be brought in both as part of the appointment process for a Police and Crime Commissioner, but also as a sounding board during their time in office, to keep the police accountable to "the informed public".

Thanks, good food for thought.

[gradus]

Based on my very limited local experience the number of people who are willing to join bodies like Parish or District councils is low and the number who take any interest in their workings even lower except when something threatens the status quo in a way that seems likely to affect property values. Our latest PC annual meeting attracted nobody except the councillors and we now have a system where the Chairman has compiled a list of the seemingly least apathetic and writes to them as a sounding board as an adjunct to the PC meetings. Even something as crucial to homes on septic tanks as a new mains drainage system (fought for against Anglian Water's refusal), barely raised a flicker of interest and no active support.

[Serial_Apologist]

Securing genuine accountability from those we elect, let along finding the right persons for the jobs, depends in the final analysis on a more dependable economic model than the one we have at present, subject as it is to vagaries of boom and slump, insufficiently buffered in preparation for floods or droughts. It needs a system in which political representatives, councillors, police chiefs, judges etc, have a sense of responsibility embedded into how everything works on a rational basis rather than being at the behest of the rich, powerful and over-endowed. People would clamour for office for the reciprocal fulfilments therein afforded. For that you need a planned grass-roots up system that allows time for the motivation to allow people to think about and take interest in matters of decision-making - one that prioritises and shares out necessary work, doesn't overload or over stress natural carrying capacities or waste invaluable resources, and limits time spent doing it by making said work sustainable and goods durable.

[Joseph K]

Securing genuine accountability from those we elect, let along finding the right persons for the jobs, depends in the final analysis on a more dependable economic model than the one we have at present, subject as it is to vagaries of boom and slump, insufficiently buffered in preparation for floods or droughts. It needs a system in which political representatives, councillors, police chiefs, judges etc, have a sense of responsibility embedded into how everything works on a rational basis rather than being at the behest of the rich, powerful and over-endowed. People would clamour for office for the reciprocal fulfilments therein afforded. For that you need a planned grass-roots up system that allows time for the motivation to allow people to think about and take interest in matters of decision-making - one that prioritises and shares out necessary work, doesn't overload or over stress natural carrying capacities or waste invaluable resources, and limits time spent doing it by making said work sustainable and goods durable.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Who watched the Jubilee Party. I did, as an antidote to the tensions around the performance of my Jubilee March.

I thought it was brilliantly done. Not that much of of the music was my cup of tea. It seemed to tail off towards the end, especially the excruciating contributions from Celeste and Nicola Roberts. Moving speeches by Sir David Attenborough and Prince William.

[Serial_Apologist]

Who watched the Jubilee Party. I did, as an antidote to the tensions around the performance of my Jubilee March.

I thought it was brilliantly done. Not that much of of the music was my cup of tea. It seemed to tail off towards the end, especially the excruciating contributions from Celeste and Nicola Roberts. Moving speeches by Sir David Attenborough and Prince William.

Buck Palace and The Mall turned into a psychedelic night club. Will "the nation" ever get over this?

[muzzer]

It went off without a hitch and finished on time, many involved will feel job done. As to the content, I’d rather have scratched my eyes out. In fact I was trying to stream The Midwich Cuckoos but Sky crashed after 4 episodes so I was ‘forced’ to watch Diana Ross. Oh the irony.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Who watched the Jubilee Party. I did, as an antidote to the tensions around the performance of my Jubilee March.

I thought it was brilliantly done. Not that much of of the music was my cup of tea. It seemed to tail off towards the end, especially the excruciating contributions from Celeste and Nicola Roberts. Moving speeches by Sir David Attenborough and Prince William.

I thought it was exceptionally well lit, directed and with a very good sound balance. But I do think some of the older singers should retire . I also thought some of the younger ones were seriously forcing their voices with excessive vibrato and what they call in pop circles melisma - we might it call it quasi baroque decoration. Their voices won’t last if they keep doing it. My wife thinks it s the influence of talent competitions like The Voice where every one is encouraged to belt it out like Ethel Merman. Climb Every Mountain and Wonderful World were particularly egregious examples. Elton John, as always got it right , stay within your voice’s capabilities- mind you he did pre record,
Diana Ross was clearly miming,

Just noticed that it was indeed Celeste and Nicole involved in those songs!

[muzzer]

The sound of modern pop voices is imho utterly painful. Blame autotune and talent shows.

[Ein Heldenleben]

The sound of modern pop voices is imho utterly painful. Blame autotune and talent shows.

Don’t laugh but one of the few to sing naturally , largely in tune and with scrupulous diction was one Andrew Lloyd Webber. As did his singing companion Lin-Manuel Miranda . In fact the West End brigade showed quite a few of the rockers a clean pair of heels singing wise.

[Lordgeous]

I thought the star of the night was the lighting designer. I know they have computers but... Wow! Musically, lets hear it for the orchestra!