The relentless encroachment of 'tech' on our lives

[kernelbogey]

My semi-Luddite 'anti-capitalist rant' (as it was genially described in a PM from another member) elsewhere on the Forum is the starting place for this new thread. Other threads are available.

Admission of Eccentric Response to This:

I would love to see this film (as I'm interested in pianos, and indeed started the Piano thread). Y**T*b* is owned by g**gl*, and to view the film I am required to sign up to their c**k** policy etc.

As a matter of (eccentric) principle I have decided - at least for now - not to patronise this company*, nor any of the other tech behemoths. (* I use DuckDuckGo for searches: no record is kept of my searches etc; Firefox as browser.)

Right now I'm not motivated to find a way round my self-imposed restriction. I realise and accept that I limit myself in various ways - not being able to see this film (probably) is a good example. But it's clear to me that the whole genre of online facilities which beckon us with siren eyes from all corners are offering goodies which are not free - the price is knowing information about us that enables them to flog us more stuff; then those stuffers do the same and so on ad infinitum.

[kernelbogey]

I am currently having a little dispute with my bank, who have introduced a Bot - let's call it 'Arti' - for customers to chat to when they have a question about their account. Last night I spent 48 minutes online with this little monster and one of its '[human] colleagues' trying to get an answer to a deliberately precisely phrased question, in less than twenty words, about a credit to my account.

The bl**d* bot could of course not answer my original question, but HAL-like - no, much less intelligently - replied You seem to be asking about transactions on your account. Here are some of the questions people have asked me.... But I remained scrupulously polite.

Sadly and stupidly, neither could the bot's human colleague answer the original question, and after 47 minutes I was told to phone the customer help line - available on certain days and at certain times - which of course I could have done in the first place; except that they had removed the previously available facility to simply ask in writing a simple question which requires a simple answer clearly available to anyone there who knows how to access their files.

<zen-like calm emoji>

[french frank]

I can't compete with that but can only say that the sun comes out (and a zen-like calm ensues) when I phone some company and within seconds a knowledgeable human replies and deals with my enquiry. So inured has one become to the presence of the almighty tech that one can only marvel at the new experience and wonder: "How do they DO that?"

[Andrew Slater]

My semi-Luddite 'anti-capitalist rant' (as it was genially described in a PM from another member) elsewhere on the Forum is the starting place for this new thread. Other threads are available.

Whenever I use Google I open a private window in Firefox and accept the cookies. On closing the window the cookies are deleted, so minimising their duration on the machine. Probably a more secure way would be to set up a special user account on the machine for use with Google apps only. This should (I hope!) avoid any 'contamination' of the 'usual' user space.

[AuntDaisy]

What's needed is an "inflict pain on bot" or a "chastise bot" button.
An electonic clog that could, saboteur-like, be hurled at sensitive electronic / software parts.

The Co-op automated check-outs are my current bane. There's a young girl who rapid-fires instructions well before I've even got my yellow member's card out, or an item ready.
I'd rather have a chat with a person, but, at certain times of the day, they're elsewhere & busy.

[oddoneout]

I can't compete with that but can only say that the sun comes out (and a zen-like calm ensues) when I phone some company and within seconds a knowledgeable human replies and deals with my enquiry. So inured has one become to the presence of the almighty tech that one can only marvel at the new experience and wonder: "How do they DO that?"

I now get thrown if a human answers the phone after only a few rings. Recently I had occasion to phone the DWP and prepared myself with the radio on, remote control and drink to hand, PC on to sort out emails while waiting... There was the usual faff with menus/choose option1 etc and then the start of the ringing tone. I'd put the handset down to have more fingers for the keyboard so was startled to hear a voice before there had even been any of the "we are sorry for the wait(not), your call is important(not), we are very busy(so go away)"etc let alone the assault by tinny "music". Mad scramble to pick up and speak, and then apologise for being all of a fluster and explain the reason. The lovely lady at the other end took it all in her stride, we had a useful and pleasant exchange (not call centre script) about the problem that needs sorting and there it was done. Whether the desired action will happen is another matter but at least the start of the process was positive. What a sad indictment of the "progress" of the past few years that what used to be fairly normal is now seen as exceptional.
More specific to the OP, an almighty mess of an IT upgrade by my employer not only makes it time consuming and confusing to lodge a pay claim (goes with the territory, they don't consider their many casual staff when making such changes) but now means I have to add on time clearing cookies as, oh what a surprise you need to open an account with Microsoft as you don't have intranet access and, more surprise MS don't provide a cookie opt out. The previous version was simple employee name and password registration and single step verification; always slow as hardware inadequate for the job, but at least I didn't have to hand over my email and PC to MS in order to claim for the few hours work I work. I know there are workarounds but I don't feel competent to try and set something up - I'm so far behind with experience in such things and worry about unintended consequences. I think there has been a change since back to registration only but I have yet to investigate. At least the "help" videos are now viewable without a login from the employer - which casual staff don't have so couldn't initially access the instructions to use the system for several weeks... Minor detail that if you don't put in a pay claim by the relevant date you won't get paid for several weeks.
It took 1h40 mins to lodge my last claim for 4 hours work, as two step verification failed completely on the second step and then just as I was about to give up all came through at once so I had to scroll through 12 texts to find the one which would work; I am trying to summon up the will to put in a claim for yesterday's 4 hour shift... Needless to say it is assumed that everyone has a smartphone or some lesser substitute.
As with HMRC, the "it's so much simpler online" rings hollow for many.

[kernelbogey]

Whenever I use Google I open a private window in Firefox and accept the cookies. On closing the window the cookies are deleted, so minimising their duration on the machine. Probably a more secure way would be to set up a special user account on the machine for use with Google apps only. This should (I hope!) avoid any 'contamination' of the 'usual' user space.

Brilliant... very many thanks, Andrew!

[kernelbogey]

I can't compete with that but can only say that the sun comes out (and a zen-like calm ensues) when I phone some company and within seconds a knowledgeable human replies and deals with my enquiry. So inured has one become to the presence of the almighty tech that one can only marvel at the new experience and wonder: "How do they DO that?"

and a zen-like calm ensues

'Not being funny or anything', but phoning The Wine Society is like that... worth joining just for the experience!

[french frank]

I've just has a prob with an ad (for an app) on my iPhone which popped up on my Leafsnap app (plant identification). The ad wouldn't close and I couldn't get back to the Home button. Ironically, the advertised app, called Calm, was for me to manage my depression and anxiety - which I didn't have until their ad got me worked up. I thought I'd have to ditch Leafsnap with all my photos and identifications.

However, I learned how to Force Quit an app (which you shouldn't do unless you have to) and that worked.

[kernelbogey]

[Crossposted from The Lost Sound thread] Trying to escape Google is like trying to escape the weather.... I hardly think that watching a show about Pianos will facilitate Big Tech controlling you soul....

It's not my soul that I'm worried about, Richard: for the first time in history we have a number of huge corporations (not in itself new) who also have huge power to intrude into personal lives. Governments, even the largest, like that of your own country, do little that is effective to restrict their power. All that is left is for individual protest. (Cf the Extinction Rebellion movement.)

The fact that such protest is Canute-like - that is, demonstrably powerless against might - is mainly a gesture: one that involves self-sacrifice that is, in the larger scheme of things, scarcely of consequence.

[DracoM]

'Not being funny or anything', but phoning The Wine Society is like that... worth joining just for the experience!

[Jonathan]

I had a discussion with a PayPal bot last week. After several moments of nonsensical replies, I gave in and typed "please may I speak to a human?"

This worked and problem was sorted out in seconds. If any of you have had similar problems, maybe typing this in would also work for you?

Hope this helps!

[Pulcinella]

Halifax app chat told me I was being passed to a colleague, but not to worry: I could carry on with my work and I'd get an alert when said colleague was ready.
I wasn't sure if the colleague would be real or similarly artificial and unable to understand my query (the online banking screen gives you details of the last time you signed on, but the app appeared not to, and I wanted to find out if I was simply not finding where to look!), so I logged out and rang them instead.
Only about a 15–20 minute wait.


[The answer is that the app DOESN'T give this information, which the chap who answered agreed seemed strange, so he was going to pass my comment on as feedback.]

[gurnemanz]

This encroachment does worry me. Also unwanted, possibly criminal, texts, emails and phone calls. However, I am very careful and have not so far to my knowledge suffered more than irritation. I suppose I have been prepared to put up with it and not allow myself to get neurotic about in return for the convenience and advantages which tech offers.

What also annoys me is tiresome "humorous" TV ads from dressed-up meerkats or joke opera singers constantly reminding me that I have the wrong insurance policy, broadband provider or energy account and need to spend my entire life comparing the market.

The all-pervading inducement to get involved in online gambling is a particularly odious and pernicious encroachment which causes real harm.

[Dave2002]

This encroachment does worry me. Also unwanted, possibly criminal, texts, emails and phone calls. However, I am very careful and have not so far to my knowledge suffered more than irritation. I suppose I have been prepared to put up with it and not allow myself to get neurotic about in return for the convenience and advantages which tech offers.

What also annoys me is tiresome "humorous" TV ads from dressed-up meerkats or joke opera singers constantly reminding me that I have the wrong insurance policy, broadband provider or energy account and need to spend my entire life comparing the market.

The all-pervading inducement to get involved in online gambling is a particularly odious and pernicious encroachment which causes real harm.

It is indeed very problematic, and getting more so.

Re comparing insurances - yes and other products - yes I agree. However only a few days ago I knocked about £80 off our house insurance premiums simply by phoning our current insurer and asking if they could do a better deal compared with the quote they sent me by post.

I even managed to negotiate a monthly payment scheme via Direct Debit at no extra cost. Seemed like a win to me.

In previous years I have tried the shop around approach, but it can be a real time waster as you give the same details repeatedly to one or more different organisations. Actually - having written that, I recall one car insurance year when I did all of that, changed brokers etc., and ended up with a policy by exactly the same company that I started with. It was odd when they said "Yes - we have all your details .....". The sales people are I think connected to databases - some of them can tell that you have accessed a comparison site, so that you may actually be negotiating from a position of strength.

So this time I was not prepared to spend more than about 10 minutes "negotiating". I got an almost immediate drop in price simply for asking and it didn't take long.

The online gambling ads are dire - but AFAIK only appear when watching sports channels, such as Amazon Prime.