Tax returns

[ardcarp]

I understand almost nothing about tax, apart from the fact it has to be paid. Any letters from HMRC seem incomprehensible. Consequently, my efforts at staying on the right side of the law just involve weekly book-keeping. At the end of the tax year (just past) I simply bundle everything up and dump it on an accountant's desk. I don't resent the fee he charges. He does a great job and I'm sure he saves me a bob or two by knowing the odd wheeze. And he probably staves off a nervous breakdown too.

By coincidence, having duly dumped my bundle of scribblings yesterday, an HMRC reminder letter came today dated 6th April 2022. [Took a long time in the post???] It has the following incredible sentence in it:

You''ll need to send us your Tax Return by 31st January 2023 (or 3 months after the date of this notice, whichever is later) along with any other information we ask for.

Er...am I being stupid, or is the bit they put in brackets completely illogical and unnecessary?

[french frank]

You''ll need to send us your Tax Return by 31st January 2023 (or 3 months after the date of this notice, whichever is later) along with any other information we ask for.

Er...am I being stupid, or is the bit they put in brackets completely illogical and unnecessary?

Dunno, but you should be covered if they come after you in a couple of months.

[Cockney Sparrow]

I understand almost nothing about tax, apart from the fact it has to be paid. Any letters from HMRC seem incomprehensible. Consequently, my efforts at staying on the right side of the law just involve weekly book-keeping. At the end of the tax year (just past) I simply bundle everything up and dump it on an accountant's desk. I don't resent the fee he charges. He does a great job and I'm sure he saves me a bob or two by knowing the odd wheeze. And he probably staves off a nervous breakdown too.

By coincidence, having duly dumped my bundle of scribblings yesterday, an HMRC reminder letter came today dated 6th April 2022. [Took a long time in the post???] It has the following incredible sentence in it:

You''ll need to send us your Tax Return by 31st January 2023 (or 3 months after the date of this notice, whichever is later) along with any other information we ask for.

Er...am I being stupid, or is the bit they put in brackets completely illogical and unnecessary?

Just means that they could send that letter in (say) June 2023, and you would then have 3 months to file the return. Everything is automated to eliminate a sentient human being - our government of the last 10+ years despises civil servants and will do anything to reduce their numbers. Then when there is an emergency they pay Capita or "consultants" (i.e. their mates) extortionate amounts to do a questionable job.
Speaking as a (gratefully) retired - and definitely non-Whitehall - civil servant.

[Andrew Slater]

By coincidence, having duly dumped my bundle of scribblings yesterday, an HMRC reminder letter came today dated 6th April 2022. [Took a long time in the post???] It has the following incredible sentence in it:

You''ll need to send us your Tax Return by 31st January 2023 (or 3 months after the date of this notice, whichever is later) along with any other information we ask for.

Er...am I being stupid, or is the bit they put in brackets completely illogical and unnecessary?

I think it's standard text to cover their sending the letter at any point during the current year to 31st January. If they were to issue the letter on, say, 20th January 2023, that sentence would come into force and you would have until 20th April 2023, rather than 31st January 2023, to respond.

I took too long typing - duplicated the previous reply!

[Dave2002]

I think it's standard text to cover their sending the letter at any point during the current year to 31st January. If they were to issue the letter on, say, 20th January 2023, that sentence would come into force and you would have until 20th April 2023, rather than 31st January 2023, to respond.

I took too long typing - duplicated the previous reply!

They could, of course, save the time and effort of editing the letter, and still send it out in 2026! Thinking ahead!

That's probably not what they intended, though.

[muzzer]

And yet what if you received this notice in Jan 2023? You’d miss the deadline. Sloppy drafting, assuming it’s pro forma. Tbf to HMRC, their online portal works very well imho, and makes everyone’s life much easier.

[Cockney Sparrow]

And yet what if you received this notice in Jan 2023? You’d miss the deadline. Sloppy drafting, assuming it’s pro forma. Tbf to HMRC, their online portal works very well imho, and makes everyone’s life much easier.

I think that's covered by :
"or 3 months after the date of this notice, whichever is later"
Consequently the filing date limit would be in April.

[ardcarp]

Tbf to HMRC, their online portal works very well imho, and makes everyone’s life much easier.

Really? Even for technophobes like me?

[Serial_Apologist]

You can't know he does a great job if you genuinely "understand almost nothing about tax". Perhaps you trust that he does, but that's different.

I have been doing exactly the same procedure as ardcarp. I would think that were there any question over my accountant's dealing with my tax returns (ever since 2001) I would have heard from the Inland Revenue by now, if not long ago.

[oddoneout]

Tbf to HMRC, their online portal works very well imho, and makes everyone’s life much easier.

It works well for many. Lack of a printer meant I had to submit online rather than making the choice which wasn't a good start, but even putting that aside I found accessing it and trying to fill in the right boxes a faff. When I hit something I didn't understand or was unsure about I didn't find the notes helpful, not least because juggling them on screen is not something I find easy - I managed to close the whole thing at one point rather than just the bit of text I was trying to fathom. I had assumed that having supplied various bits of information the fist time that prefilling would deal with that the next year but instead I found that things I had assumed would be prefilled (such as my employer's ref no etc) weren't, but figures had been put in elsewhere that weren't right for that year. Having to complete everything on one page before being able to move on I found tiresome; when I could just spread all the papers out on the dining room table I could fill in as and when and not hold everything up if I hadn't got a particular bit of paper to hand at the time, or needed to take time to understand some bit of information.
Having submitted the forms and had them accepted I subsequently got two incorrect tax codings (to add to the one received just prior to submitting the return!). Attempts to notify them online as it said on the letter failed miserably as the links didn't work. I sent a complaint and in due course got the response that yes they know those links don't work yet for everyone, but no suggestion as to what I should do in the meantime. Perhaps if I didn't keep getting the beta version (as they keep telling me and requesting feedback to "improve their service" - but the one time I tried the feedback link didn't work...) I would have more success? I doubt it though - I don't have enough digits in my income to warrant a fully functioning service...

[ardcarp]

Boilk, one has to trust people occasionally: and Odders, you've highlighted some of my worst fears!

[Dave2002]

Boilk, one has to trust people occasionally: and Odders, you've highlighted some of my worst fears!

That is often the case with computer forms. They try to shoehorn everything into a fixed format, so that additional information which might be relevant cannot be provided, and it can even be hard to provide even the information which is specifically required. Also, sometimes one might be tempted to shout at the computer - "But you've already got that information - I filled it in 5 pages ago, or it's on my file ..." etc.

In the days of paper forms I used to write covering letters, and add annotations, but these are not possible with most computer forms.

Fortunately I hardly have any of these to deal with nowadays.

Also, you may wonder whether any of the forms are in fact ever read - I don't know. However, in days when I used to write letters and CVs - often - but not exclusively so - I put some effort into my writing.
I gather that many job applications are now done "online" and in fact many are "read" by some form of computer program rather than a sentient human being. OK - so in the past one knew the game was to put enough effort into the writing that the gatekeeper whose job was to put 95% of all applications straight into the bin would actually pass on one's application to someone who might seriously be interested, but now it seems the effort has to be put into tricking a computer robot. Of course if the job is for a computer security job, all the applicant has to do is to find where the letters of acceptance and records are kept inside the secure databases and make sure that they are filled in offering him or her the job and notifying the human resources department on the appropriate day!

[ardcarp]

I understand that in France where, for better or worse, taxation is more stringently investigated, tax offices are local to each area (probably a throw-back to Napoleon's flair for organisation). Whilst the French do love their paperwork, I think it is possible to engage on a more person-to-person basis with the tax authorities than in the UK. We have French friends who often moan about the number of 'fonctionnaires' employed by the state in their nice secure jobs with nice secure pensions, but maybe there is an up-side to it as well.

[french frank]

I understand that in France where, for better or worse, taxation is more stringently investigated, tax offices are local to each area (probably a throw-back to Napoleon's flair for organisation). Whilst the French do love their paperwork, I think it is possible to engage on a more person-to-person basis with the tax authorities than in the UK. We have French friends who often moan about the number of 'fonctionnaires' employed by the state in their nice secure jobs with nice secure pensions, but maybe there is an up-side to it as well.

In the days when I used to pay income tax, I rang the local tax office on several occasions and found them very helpful. They only slipped up a year or two ago, long after I'd ceased to send in a tax return, when they got it into their heads that a) I had offshore assets which I should declare at once (ME: "What is an offshore asset?"); and then b) that I had an overseas bank account. On that I could only help them by saying that 60 years ago, as a student in Paris, I had arranged with the Société Générale to draw money on my Clydesdale Bank account in Scotland. Was that what they meant? (They didn't answer.) Mistaken identity, I imagine.

[ardcarp]

You have a local tax office? The only address I ever see is the one I have to pay my twice-yearly dibs to:

HMRC
Direct
BX5 5BD