The EHRC finally makes up its mind

[scottycelt]

Scotty did you have an irony by-pass at some stage? Lesbians and gay men have been referred to as 'not the marrying kind' by prissy mouthed people for decades - my using it was my little revenge. 'He never married' was for a long-time code for a gay man in the obituaries in certain newspapers.

You could well be right with your 'code' theory, amateur ..

Maybe that's why I often used to think that some of the obituaries in certain newspapers appeared to bear little resemblance to the poor man/woman who had just passed away.

[Anna]

When I was growing up the expression always was "He's one of Nature's bachelors" (still used here) which I always thought implied that Mother Nature said it was alright therefore homosexuality was alright and perfectly natural.

Anyway, back to being buried with someone you love. If I had the choice it would be with my eldest brother because we love each other intensely, that is not to say we have an inappropriate relationship.

Anyway, back to John Newman and an article I was reading about him which states: Newman remains elusive, never more so than when his grave was opened in 2008 so his body could be transferred to his old church, the Birmingham Oratory, in preparation for the Pope's visit. The body was found to have entirely disintegrated: the old boy having craftily attempted to evade sanctification by arranging to be buried in rotting compost.

Not sure if this is off-topic or not.

[Flosshilde]

Anyway, back to John Newman and an article I was reading about him which states: Newman remains elusive, never more so than when his grave was opened in 2008 so his body could be transferred to his old church, the Birmingham Oratory, in preparation for the Pope's visit. The body was found to have entirely disintegrated: the old boy having craftily attempted to evade sanctification by arranging to be buried in rotting compost.

Clever old thing.

Pitty it didn't work.

Scotty, presumably you would be happy if you were refused housing, work, or education (or the right to sit in Parliament) simply because you are a Roman Catholic? Or perhaps you wouldn't mind being burnt? Will you be campaigning against any laws that prohibit discrimination against Catholics?

[scottycelt]

Clever old thing.

Pitty it didn't work.

Scotty, presumably you would be happy if you were refused housing, work, or education (or the right to sit in Parliament) simply because you are a Roman Catholic? Or perhaps you wouldn't mind being burnt? Will you be campaigning against any laws that prohibit discrimination against Catholics?

Sorry, Floss, I haven't really a clue what you are on about in your last paragraph ...

However, on first reading ...

a) No, I wouldn't be happy with any of these though it is widely-known that Catholics, unlike homosexuals, are already barred from certain positions of high office in the UK.

b) Yes, I would mind a great deal 'being burnt', thank you very much ..

c) No, I'm not really the campaigning type, Floss, especially as I'm never very likely now to become heir to the throne ..

However, some of my less selfish fellow-countrymen (not just Catholics) already do campaign against such official discrimination, as this link from the, er .. ... clearly demonstrates ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/dec/08/monarchy.comment1

[Flosshilde]

Sorry, Floss, I haven't really a clue what you are on about in your last paragraph ... [/URL]

I assume that you are pretending to be dense for effect, Scotty. I'm absolutely certain that you are well aware that the question 'What school did you go to?', often asked during job inteviews in Glasgow not so many years ago, wasn't as innocuous as it sounds. As for the rest of the UK, until the mid-nineteenth century accepting, or subscribing to, the 39 Articles (the foundation of the Church of England) was a requirement if you wanted a degree from Oxford University. Catholics were a bit better off if they wanted to enter Parliament - they were allowed in after 1829.

If you were hoping to gain access to the highest reaches of British society I think that Eugenie & Beatrice are the only possibility for you, & even they are rather remote. Of course, Harry's still single, but you might run into a bit of difficulty with your spiritual leader if you tried that route. (mind you, the rules only state that the monarch can't marry a Catholic - not that they can't enter into a civil partnership with one, so you might be in with a chance )

[Mandryka]

The old wikipedia entry for Gerald Kaufman contained the following passage:

'Gerald Kaufman is known for his colourful taste in clothing. He is fond of cats. He is unmarried.'


As far as the world is aware, John Henry Newman probably did have a close emotional relationship with a man, but there does not appear to be any extant evidence that this relationship was in any way sexual.

[scottycelt]

I assume that you are pretending to be dense for effect, Scotty.

No need for pretence of any sort whatsoever, Floss ... as far as #33 is concerned, I continue to remain as thick as two short planks ...

[vinteuil]

'He never married' was for a long-time code for a gay man in the obituaries in certain newspapers.

The tradition still survives. In today's Times, the last sentence of the lengthy obituary for the arts administrator Richard Pulford reads: "Pulford did not marry, and he is survived by a sister and a brother."

RP RIP

[Mandryka]

The tradition still survives. In today's Times, the last sentence of the lengthy obituary for the arts administrator Richard Pulford reads: "Pulford did not marry, and he is survived by a sister and a brother."

RP RIP

I wonder why obituarists still feel the need to record that someone 'never married'. Why not just leave it their surviving next of kin and have done with it?

[Bryn]

It would be interesting to read "xxxx did not marry, and he is survived by his many mistresses and innumerable unacknowledged children, the cad!"

[scottycelt]

I still completely fail to see why 'never married' in an obituary should apparently mean 'homosexual'.

There must be quite a number of dead bachelors/spinsters who, if miraculously resurrected, would be astonished and greatly amused at such a ludicrous and ill-informed assumption.

It is also true that some marrieds can sometimes get involved and even end up in homosexual relationships?

[scottycelt]

It would be interesting to read "xxxx did not marry, and he is survived by his many mistresses and innumerable unacknowledged children, the cad!"

You put it much better and far more succinctly than I, Bryn ...

[vinteuil]

I wonder why obituarists still feel the need to record that someone 'never married'.

I was just surprised that The Times was still using this antiquated code, rather than saying that he was gay.

[Mandryka]

It would be interesting to read "xxxx did not marry, and he is survived by his many mistresses and innumerable unacknowledged children, the cad!"

I think Paul McCartney's obit might read something like that!

[amateur51]

I was just surprised that The Times was still using this antiquated code, rather than saying that he was gay.

Agreed vinteuil - a fine example

They never say 'He failed to finish Proust in French' or 'She liked her eggs soft-boiled' or 'His sponge was the envy of the county and his secret went to the grave with him' so why bring up marriage or the lack of it