Smartly metering

[oddoneout]

It is indeed a quite common misconception - I have had to explain recently to a couple of Lady Gould’s friends that being on a fixed deal doesn’t mean you can use as much as you like and your monthly payment will not change ……

A dilemma for current suppliers is that it is widely recognised that price cap tariff rates will rise dramatically from 1 April 2022 so how do they build this into the monthly payment reassessments they are currently carrying out ….. ?????

Bit like the common misconception about being on a green tariff -"oh I'm on 100% renewables so I'm not using fossil fuels..." That's slowly being corrected, but the marketing material for such tariffs is very crafty about not making the situation crystal clear from the off. Unfortunately the ASA doesn't seem inclined to address the issue robustly and the companies have got savvy about how they can obscure the issue without penalties.
Regarding DDs the default position is monthly and I'm not sure that quarterly is an option universally available. I have it with my current supplier but I'm not assuming that will continue indefinitely, and when I was looking at alternatives late summer in preparation for my fixed tariff ending I couldn't find a similar arrangement among the ones I considered; lets face it monthly DDs suit the companies so the customer wanting something different isn't in a good position. PO telephones started BT tactics some years ago, charging a stupid amount for paper bills so I agreed to online quarterly, but that didn't last long before they said I had to pay monthly, but at least I am able to opt out of DD - for now - by paying on a budget card at the Post Office when the bill is emailed. By using my credit card to pay I add to my tally of John Lewis gift vouchers (bonus!) and going to the PO isn't an issue as I'm in town once or twice a week anyway.

[french frank]

"oh I'm on 100% renewables so I'm not using fossil fuels..."

The last bit is a nonsense, but the first bit need not be too wide of the truth if it's understood to mean, "The money I pay to my supplier is matched 100% by the amount of renewably-generated power fed into the grid by my supplier."

I'm still mulling Andrew's When I switch suppliers there's always a hiatus How often do you change suppliers, Andrew? The only reason I'd change my supplier is if my current one went bust. The main differential in cost depends on how much one uses not which supplier you're with.

[oddoneout]

I suppose it might push things along a bit quicker (not sure about hydro though - I don't think there's much scope for additional hydro capacity - tidal would be better), but it's likely to be a very small effect. My view is that gas will be phased out soon and replacements put in place, and anything we do individually won't have much of an effect, apart from costing us individually more money.

I'm probably stating the obvious to point out that when it's dark and the wind isn't blowing, your electricity supply will be dependent on gas, even if your supplier offsets it with renewable energy at other times, as there's very little storage in the system.

I suppose real smart meters would indicate to the user the instantaneous sources of electrical generation (and possibly also gas) so that the user could make a decision to disconnect when they didn't like the look of the generation / supply mix, and even better, automatically disconnect the supplies (or at least non-essential loads) according to user preference settings.

I've had smart meters for about three years. When I switch suppliers there's always a hiatus while the new supplier attempts to connect to them - apparently the computer network which connects them is somewhat complicated and seems to have been cobbled together, rather than designed. Even the method of transmission from meter to network differs in different parts of the country - I think the mobile phone system is used in the south and a conventional radio system in the north! I only use my remote unit to read the meters - which is necessary as the gas meter runs on a battery and to read it directly needs a button to be operated, with the risk of reducing the battery life. If I leave the remote unit on for very long, it usually 'locks up', displaying only the gas information for the current day.

You can see the current electrical energy supply source for the country here.

Re hydro https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...lands-57510870 I hadn't realised this was still in limbo. It's all very well chuntering on about nuclear being the way forward, but in the meantime there are proven systems that could be addressing some of the shortfall, without so much of the likelihood of negative public reaction, and on a much shorter lead time. The dams may be massive features on the landscape (as indeed are nuclear plants) but if necessary they could be dismantled and the land reclaimed without leaving a legacy of hundreds of years worth of hazardous waste storage. The cost quoted is a lot of money but, compared to the cost, for instance of Covid related contracts handed to Tory interests, it doesn't seem so much?
However so long as policy in this country continues to be piecemeal and short-term, the energy supply and security issues will continue, and as for the long standing climate considerations, well they comes a long way down the list ( if on it at all) it seems to me.
I still have a figure stuck in my mind from many years ago, and I have no idea of the source, that during Tony "green, Kyoto signing" Blair's 10 year incumbency electricity consumption rose by 20%. The lack of any obvious questioning of why, how and whether necessary since then has stuck with me. The approach seems to be to try and match current and predicted increased future demand without looking at reduction of said demand. Why are things like the Shard being constructed which sucks up the equivalent power demands of a small town and presumably does little if anything to put something back? The lockdown periods highlighted where power was being used by business normally - has any work been done since to look at how much of that is essential or how it could be reduced even if previous operating resumes? I don't get the impression(I'm happy to be corrected) that there is government interest in prevention, it is left to companies and other interests to sort out for themselves, again a piecemeal approach which works against sharing solutions and best practice it seems to me.

[oddoneout]

The last bit is a nonsense, but the first bit need not be too wide of the truth if it's understood to mean, "The money I pay to my supplier is matched 100% by the amount of renewably-generated power fed into the grid by my supplier."

I'm still mulling Andrew's When I switch suppliers there's always a hiatus How often do you change suppliers, Andrew? The only reason I'd change my supplier is if my current one went bust. The main differential in cost depends on how much one uses not which supplier you're with.

Those who regularly check to see they are getting the best deal will change, possibly annually, for many services, including power, if a current company doesn't offer acceptable terms. The benefits of loyalty accrue to the business, not the customer, in many(most?) cases.
The problems of switching suppliers when a smart meter is installed are said to be reducing considerably now as standardisation is finally getting through. It is yet another reason why I'm holding out as long as possible; I find the mechanics of everyday life (choosing companies and contracts, paying bills on different systems, sorting out glitches and mistakes etc) quite tiresome enough without deliberately adding to them.

[Old Grumpy]

apparently the computer network which connects them is somewhat complicated and seems to have been cobbled together, rather than designed

Must be the same suppliers as the NHS and other public services!

We don't have smart meters or smart valves - I always wondered why the thermostat was traditionally placed in the hall. It should be in the living room, so the temperature set is the temperature maintained...

There is no need for the hall to be at c.20C, or the bedrooms!

[cloughie]

Must be the same suppliers as the NHS and other public services!

We don't have smart meters or smart valves - I always wondered why the thermostat was traditionally placed in the hall. It should be in the living room, so the temperature set is the temperature maintained...

There is no need for the hall to be at c.20C, or the bedrooms!

Maybe it dates back to when it was traditional to only have one thermostat and if set in the room with the warmest requirement would not warm up a chilly hall and landing sufficiently - I think individual thermostats on radiators has replaced that idea - however I may be out of date on that being all electric with storage heaters in some but not all rooms I’m no expert on boiler-led radiator systems!

[Andrew Slater]

Yes Andrew the whole implementation has been a massive shambles typical of the Industry post privatisation ….. if I can swear everyone here to secrecy my gas meter has actually taken to stopping for days at a time …. That is the actual meter not the display unit …. never in my 40 years in the sector have I come across such a thing …. Stopped meters yes and meters running fast or slow but never stopping and then starting again. Just as I was saying my goodbyes I was hearing whispers about meters being purchased from overseas that were, even then, causing concern. I wonder how long it will be before EDF start asking sensible questions ….. ????

I suppose your meter could be stopping because of an exhausted battery which periodically recovers. (If the meter is in an exposed location it might be affected by outside temperatures, the battery recovering during warm spells.) I was just mulling over the operation of gas meters with their batteries and wondering if the flow of gas could be used to drive a dynamo to keep the battery charged. I wonder if they actually do this, and whether that might explain your meter stopping and then re-starting, if the battery's beyond its best. Does the meter keep going during heavy gas usage and only stop during light usage periods?

[Andrew Slater]

I'm still mulling Andrew's When I switch suppliers there's always a hiatus How often do you change suppliers, Andrew? The only reason I'd change my supplier is if my current one went bust. The main differential in cost depends on how much one uses not which supplier you're with.

I've changed supplier annually over the last few years, when a fixed contract has expired - as my usage is at a bare minimum the only saving to be made is by switching supplier. My last change back in May was to Octopus Energy - only a small saving, but a saving (and their electricity sources are 100% renewable). I'm gritting my teeth now, hoping it won't follow the other suppliers which I avoided as their tariffs seemed too good to be true.....

[antongould]

I suppose your meter could be stopping because of an exhausted battery which periodically recovers. (If the meter is in an exposed location it might be affected by outside temperatures, the battery recovering during warm spells.) I was just mulling over the operation of gas meters with their batteries and wondering if the flow of gas could be used to drive a dynamo to keep the battery charged. I wonder if they actually do this, and whether that might explain your meter stopping and then re-starting, if the battery's beyond its best. Does the meter keep going during heavy gas usage and only stop during light usage periods?

As I’ve said many times before I am stupid - all those years and I never knew gas meters had a battery in ……. !!!!! I have now read up on it …. the battery seems to be to power the display and should last 10 years ….. I have just checked the display and it is clear and well lit ….. as to the stopping and starting Andrew …..
Stop 19/01/21
Start 12/03/21
Stop 16/03/21
Start 21/03/21
Stop 12/11/21
Start 23/11/21
Stop 24/11/21

….. reading more on the, ever reliable, internet it seems that if the battery fails it should be sending messages to EDF …. ?????

[jayne lee wilson]

It is indeed a quite common misconception - I have had to explain recently to a couple of Lady Gould’s friends that being on a fixed deal doesn’t mean you can use as much as you like and your monthly payment will not change ……

A dilemma for current suppliers is that it is widely recognised that price cap tariff rates will rise dramatically from 1 April 2022 so how do they build this into the monthly payment reassessments they are currently carrying out ….. ?????

To clarify a little further - if you take a fixed deal for say, three years, what is fixed is the unit cost per kWh for gas and/or Electricity. So your own usage is all that will vary your monthly/quarterly payments. The SMETS2 benefit will be greater accuracy in reporting the usage.

The price cap tariff won't change that at least and, the higher your usage (in a dangerous world) the more sense a fixed deal makes. You can choose one which contributes to various causes e.g. cancer research and so on.

But read the small print about exit fees etc., some have them some don't....

***
As for EDF.... having worked with contractors, agents and tenants on improving the Energy Efficiency of old buildings, I can safely say they are the absolute worst to deal with; greedy, unreliable, uncooperative. The stuff they try to pull you wouldn't believe....

Tough right now, but switch away from them if& when you possibly can.

[LHC]

Must be the same suppliers as the NHS and other public services!

We don't have smart meters or smart valves - I always wondered why the thermostat was traditionally placed in the hall. It should be in the living room, so the temperature set is the temperature maintained...

There is no need for the hall to be at c.20C, or the bedrooms!

I can remember visiting elderly relatives a few years ago who had their thermostat in the hall. Unfortunately, the hall had no radiator and they kept all the doors in the house closed to prevent drafts. The result was that their living room was unbearably hot (probably well over 30) and when we stayed with them in the winter I would have to regularly go out into their garden to try and cool down.

[french frank]

As I’ve said many times before I am stupid - all those years and I never knew gas meters had a battery in ……. !!!!!

I searched on "powering gas meters" and found what you've already found - this from Shell Energy about smart meters.

I've just looked at my new one (outside). It has what looks like a display but it's blank (perhaps they didn't put a battery in?). But why would it need a display - no one's going to come and look at it. The 'In-house display' did go off yesterday but the wireless signal was quite weak in the kitchen. I took it upstairs and placed it comfortingly by the router and it came back on again. Now happily back downstairs.

[antongould]

I searched on "powering gas meters" and found what you've already found - this from Shell Energy about smart meters.

I've just looked at my new one (outside). It has what looks like a display but it's blank (perhaps they didn't put a battery in?). But why would it need a display - no one's going to come and look at it. The 'In-house display' did go off yesterday but the wireless signal was quite weak in the kitchen. I took it upstairs and placed it comfortingly by the router and it came back on again. Now happily back downstairs.

Beside what looks like the display is there a button - there is on ours - and if you press that it should display the reading ……. ?????

[french frank]

Beside what looks like the display is there a button - there is on ours - and if you press that it should display the reading ……. ?????

Bloomin' cold outside. I'm not going out again to look You're probably right - but if the reading is being transferred directly to the supplier, do I need to know? The IHD has the cost and the kilowatts (and lots of other things).

Closing the back door last night does seem to be resulting in a much lower reading.

[Andrew Slater]

As I’ve said many times before I am stupid - all those years and I never knew gas meters had a battery in ……. !!!!! I have now read up on it …. the battery seems to be to power the display and should last 10 years ….. I have just checked the display and it is clear and well lit ….. as to the stopping and starting Andrew …..
Stop 19/01/21
Start 12/03/21
Stop 16/03/21
Start 21/03/21
Stop 12/11/21
Start 23/11/21
Stop 24/11/21

If the display is showing during a 'stopped' period it suggests that the battery is probably OK. The 'stopped' periods do seem to correlate with cold weather months, so there could be a cold-related problem with the meter. Presumably your bills correlate with the stopped periods, and it isn't just a communication problem with your remote display?