Kurt Sanderling 1912-2011

[richardfinegold]

Has anyone seen the Gramophone November Edition? The Gramophone Collection Feature is dedicated to recordings of Shostakovich Fifth Symphony. The “winner” in David Gutman’s article is Sanderling recording with the Berlin Symphony.
I had thought about buying these recordings a few years ago and held off. Now I’ve listened to Sanderling’s Shostakovich on Qobuz. I have long regarded Sanderling’s Brahms/Dresden cycle as the benchmark in that ridiculously crowded market but really didn’t know much about KS personally.
As a Jew from East Prussia he was dismissed from his posts when the Nazis became ascendant. Unable to obtain a Visa to the U.S. he wound up in the U.S.S.R.at the onset of the Great Purges of the 1930s. He was present at the premiere of the Fifth and thought that he might get arrested at the time. He befriended DSCH in the forties and as Mravinsky assistant in Leningrad for 20 years he actually performed his Symphonies more frequently than Y.M. Who would not program them frequently after the premieres.
He gave a few interviews late in his career in which he essentially endorses the picture of DSCH as portrayed in Testimony.
He apparently was prone to talking at length about the hidden meanings in DSCH during rehearsal.
He had a relationship with the Philharmonia and other English Orchestras from the seventies on. I was wondering if any of the Forumites had interacted with him or with musicians that worked with him.

[jayne lee wilson]

No interactions I'm afraid (not much chance of any really).....

I was thrilled to see Gutman's choices, as Sanderling became a conductor-hero of mine some years ago, and that DSCH 5th is one his best records. (I still recall Stephen Johnson's praise for it on R3/RR, when the label first appeared in the UK); but then, most of his Berlin SO DSCH (1,5,6,8,10,15) is compelling and well recorded in the Christus-Kirche. I can't go with his slower treatment of the 15th, but that is a rare exception. The long interview with Sanderling in the booklets accompanying the Berlin Classics releases is remarkably insightful about his Russian life and experiences.
The Sibelius Cycle from the same source is among my top three or four, the Bruckner 7 live in Stuttgart another classic.....
The Haydn Paris Symphonies with the Berlin SO are on a grand-scale, but subtly and sensitively done. If I had to choose one.....?
The Mahler 10th (Cooke) with the same orchestra, one of the earliest but still among the best.

Often on Radio 3 relays through the 1990s, he gave two of the inaugural concerts in the Glasgow Royal Concert Hall with the Berlin Philharmonic. The main works in each? Bruckner 3 (1889) and......yes, the Shostakovich 5th, which always meant a great deal to him.
I remember a DSCH 8th from the Symphony Hall Birmingham later, but I can't recall which orchestra. One always awaited each event very avidly!

One of the all-time Greats with a remarkable tale to tell, in his life and in his music making. The discography is a little scattered across labels eras and locations but... Qobuz is your friend.

[cloughie]

A long long time ago my first experience of KS was his recording of Rachmaninov Sym 2 which at the time was the first complete version of the work that restored most of the sanctioned cuts. The recording was with Leningrad PO at the time he was Mravinsky’s no2. - another of his recordings then was Tchaik 4. Both these were on DG but hecwas also recording for Russian labels and on Artia he recorded Rachmaninov Sym 1 - another gem! I don’t think I’ve heard a bad recording by the conductor and I agree with Jayne the Sibelius Symphonies set is very good but does not quite beat my all-time favourite- the Collins set but then there are may Sibelius recordings I love!

[richardfinegold]

No interactions I'm afraid (not much chance of any really).....

I was thrilled to see Gutman's choices, as Sanderling became a conductor-hero of mine some years ago, and that DSCH 5th is one his best records. (I still recall Stephen Johnson's praise for it on R3/RR, when the label first appeared in the UK); but then, most of his Berlin SO DSCH (1,5,6,8,10,15) is compelling and well recorded in the Christus-Kirche. I can't go with his slower treatment of the 15th, but that is a rare exception. The long interview with Sanderling in the booklets accompanying the Berlin Classics releases is remarkably insightful about his Russian life and experiences.
The Sibelius Cycle from the same source is among my top three or four, the Bruckner 7 live in Stuttgart another classic.....
The Haydn Paris Symphonies with the Berlin SO are on a grand-scale, but subtly and sensitively done. If I had to choose one.....?
The Mahler 10th (Cooke) with the same orchestra, one of the earliest but still among the best.

Often on Radio 3 relays through the 1990s, he gave two of the inaugural concerts in the Glasgow Royal Concert Hall with the Berlin Philharmonic. The main works in each? Bruckner 3 (1889) and......yes, the Shostakovich 5th, which always meant a great deal to him.
I remember a DSCH 8th from the Symphony Hall Birmingham later, but I can't recall which orchestra. One always awaited each event very avidly!

One of the all-time Greats with a remarkable tale to tell, in his life and in his music making. The discography is a little scattered across labels eras and locations but... Qobuz is your friend.

I have that Mahler 10, one of those repeatedly played recordings on first purchase that for no good reason becomes forgotten. Clearly there are drawbacks to having all of this unlimited choice to easily available, although I feel lucky most of the time,but I digress…I didn’t see Sibelius offerings on Qobuz and since you and Cloughie are so enthusiastic about it, so I will reinvestigate.
This makes me reflect that we don’t see many Sibelius recordings from behind the old iron curtain. Perhaps some lingering resentment in the former U.S.S.R. from the drubbing that they received from Finland in WWII?

[Historian]

I worked with him once, as part of the chorus for a performance of Beethoven's Ninth in 1995, by which time he was in his mid 80s. Very sorry to say that I have no major insights to give on his technique: he struck me as very humane and wise, polite to everyone involved. From what I can remember his interpretation of 9th was one of the better ones I have experienced but, as I said, I can't give you chapter and verse. I do remember wishing that I had been able to work with him again.

Perhaps those with a much better knowledge of his recorded legacy would be able to make some more helpful observations on his view of the Choral Symphony.

[BBMmk2]

I’ll have to hear the S5 and M10, I think……

[Alison]

I listened to my dads LPs of his LvB cycle with the Philharmonia. These seemed dull and uninspiring even at a time so much Beethoven was slow and monumental.

Perhaps I’ve never truly forgiven KS for that at such a formative age.

[HighlandDougie]

No interactions I'm afraid (not much chance of any really).....

I was thrilled to see Gutman's choices, as Sanderling became a conductor-hero of mine some years ago, and that DSCH 5th is one his best records. (I still recall Stephen Johnson's praise for it on R3/RR, when the label first appeared in the UK); but then, most of his Berlin SO DSCH (1,5,6,8,10,15) is compelling and well recorded in the Christus-Kirche. I can't go with his slower treatment of the 15th, but that is a rare exception. The long interview with Sanderling in the booklets accompanying the Berlin Classics releases is remarkably insightful about his Russian life and experiences.
The Sibelius Cycle from the same source is among my top three or four, the Bruckner 7 live in Stuttgart another classic.....
The Haydn Paris Symphonies with the Berlin SO are on a grand-scale, but subtly and sensitively done. If I had to choose one.....?
The Mahler 10th (Cooke) with the same orchestra, one of the earliest but still among the best.

Often on Radio 3 relays through the 1990s, he gave two of the inaugural concerts in the Glasgow Royal Concert Hall with the Berlin Philharmonic. The main works in each? Bruckner 3 (1889) and......yes, the Shostakovich 5th, which always meant a great deal to him.
I remember a DSCH 8th from the Symphony Hall Birmingham later, but I can't recall which orchestra. One always awaited each event very avidly!

One of the all-time Greats with a remarkable tale to tell, in his life and in his music making. The discography is a little scattered across labels eras and locations but... Qobuz is your friend.

I was at those Berlin Phil concerts and, while I remember thinking in advance of them - "Oh, Kurt Sanderling rather than Abbado", I didn't feel in any way short-changed after them. I also went to hear him in Glasgow in the DSCH 8th with the Los Angeles Philharmonic (which no doubt then included Birmingham in its tour of the UK). I strongly second Jayne's enthusiasm for his DSCH (and I've come to live with the 15th over time) and especially his Sibelius and that wonderful SWR Bruckner 7th. The later Brahms cycle - recorded in 1990 with the Berlin Symphony Orchestra - is another joy. There is also a very fine Mahler 9th with the NDR Orchestra. I've never heard the LvB Philharmonia cycle but I do remember the du Maurier branding. It's available cheaply so I'm tempted to add it to the LvB symphony cycles collection, despite Alison's less-than-stellar memories of it!

[richardfinegold]

I was at those Berlin Phil concerts and, while I remember thinking in advance of them - "Oh, Kurt Sanderling rather than Abbado", I didn't feel in any way short-changed after them. I also went to hear him in Glasgow in the DSCH 8th with the Los Angeles Philharmonic (which no doubt then included Birmingham in its tour of the UK). I strongly second Jayne's enthusiasm for his DSCH (and I've come to live with the 15th over time) and especially his Sibelius and that wonderful SWR Bruckner 7th. The later Brahms cycle - recorded in 1990 with the Berlin Symphony Orchestra - is another joy. There is also a very fine Mahler 9th with the NDR Orchestra. I've never heard the LvB Philharmonia cycle but I do remember the du Maurier branding. It's available cheaply so I'm tempted to add it to the LvB symphony cycles collection, despite Alison's less-than-stellar memories of it!

I wasn’t aware that there was a later Brahms cycle with the Berlin SO.
I listened to the DSCH First on Qobuz yesterday. I have to say this was a little short on the exuberance level. Most conductors treat this work as an outlier in the Shostakovich Cycle ,despite the solemn slow movement, and that movement aside, tend to play it more like Prokofiev Classical Symphony. Sanderling gives I in particular more gravitas and makes it seem more apiece with the rest of the cycle, from 4 on. I’ll relisten to this interesting view before I move on to the rest of the Shostakovich recordings

[Bryn]

I listened to my dads LPs of his LvB cycle with the Philharmonia. These seemed dull and uninspiring even at a time so much Beethoven was slow and monumental.

Perhaps I’ve never truly forgiven KS for that at such a formative age.

I have that set but have not listened to any from it for many decades. My turntables with reasonable arms and cartridges are both out of action at the moment but I think I also have a CD or two of those recordings picked up n charity shops, over the years. I must search them out. I seem to recall the LP box being issued around the same time as the Jochum LSO set (SQ quadraphonic) which I much preferred.

[cloughie]

I have that set but have not listened to any from it for many decades. My turntables with reasonable arms and cartridges are both out of action at the moment but I think I also have a CD or two of those recordings picked up n charity shops, over the years. I must search them out. I seem to recall the LP box being issued around the same time as the Jochum LSO set (SQ quadraphonic) which I much preferred.

The LP set was sponsored by du Maurier and came out in what looked like a big Peter Stuyvesant box - released in 1981 so a fairly early EMI digital recording - the CDs were issued ln the HMV store label.

[Bryn]

The LP set was sponsored by du Maurier and came out in what looked like a big Peter Stuyvesant box - released in 1981 so a fairly early EMI digital recording - the CDs were issued ln the HMV store label.

So released a couple of years after the LSO/Jochum quadraphonic LP set. I just recall purchasing them around the same time. The Jochum set was, it appears, re-issued in SACD with 4-channel surround in Japan (2017).

[Historian]

I listened to my dads LPs of his LvB cycle with the Philharmonia. These seemed dull and uninspiring even at a time so much Beethoven was slow and monumental. Perhaps I’ve never truly forgiven KS for that at such a formative age.

Sorry to hear that: that's not the impression I took away but it was quite a long time ago and I didn't have the experience I have now. From what others have said it may be worth your while seeing if you change your opinion by listening to some of his other recordings. Still wish I had been able to work with him again.

Many thanks to all the contributors for expanding my comprehension of his work in the studio (if that doesn't sound too pompous).

[Bryn]

Sorry to hear that: that's not the impression I took away but it was quite a long time ago and I didn't have the experience I have now. From what others have said it may be worth your while seeing if you change your opinion by listening to some of his other recordings. Still wish I had been able to work with him again.

Many thanks to all the contributors for expanding my comprehension of his work in the studio (if that doesn't sound too pompous).

His Sibelius "Nightride and Sunrise" is a truly great recording of the work.

Well, wadyano, the last 5 minutes of tonight's "The Museum of Curiosities" on Radio 4 would make a fine prelude to that very recording.

[pastoralguy]

He had a relationship with the Philharmonia and other English Orchestras from the seventies on.

Including a strong relationship with the Scottish National Orchestra who are based in Glasgow which isn’t in England.

Honestly, you Canadians…