Kurt Sanderling 1912-2011

[richardfinegold]

Including a strong relationship with the Scottish National Orchestra who are based in Glasgow which isn’t in England.

Honestly, you Canadians…

Dios mio, senor!

[BBMmk2]

Yesterday I heard Sanderling’s recording of M10 S5. So good.

[richardfinegold]

I’ve listened to all of KS Shostakovich on Qobuz. I re listened to the First, which I enjoyed more the second time. I don’t think that he views it as high tragedy through out, but rather that his tempos and the level of Orchestra playing are just not quite what we have become accustomed to. For example, the Stalin movement of the Tenth. To hear Petrenko or Karajan here is to marvel at the intensity and speed of the playing. KS is a much safer ride. Otoh there are so many details and modes of inflection in the other movements that seemed interesting. I will be returning to this Tenth a lot.
One question about the (East) Berlin SO: Are they the same Orchestra that Barenboim has conducted for many years now?

[Bryn]

. . . One question about the (East) Berlin SO: Are they the same Orchestra that Barenboim has conducted for many years now?

No. That's the Staatskapelle Berlin, which has a four and a half century history.

The orchestra Kurt Sanderling was so closely associated with was this one.

[gurnemanz]

I’ve listened to all of KS Shostakovich on Qobuz. I re listened to the First, which I enjoyed more the second time. I don’t think that he views it as high tragedy through out, but rather that his tempos and the level of Orchestra playing are just not quite what we have become accustomed to. For example, the Stalin movement of the Tenth. To hear Petrenko or Karajan here is to marvel at the intensity and speed of the playing. KS is a much safer ride. Otoh there are so many details and modes of inflection in the other movements that seemed interesting. I will be returning to this Tenth a lot.
One question about the (East) Berlin SO: Are they the same Orchestra that Barenboim has conducted for many years now?

It's a bit confusing with the renamings and mergings that went on following division and reunification. Sanderling's Berliner Sinfonie-Orchester, used in his Shostakovich recordings, was founded in East Berlin in 1952 as a counterpart to Karajan and BPO in the West. (as noted above, it changed its name after reunification to Konzerthausorchester Berlin, current chief conductor Christoph Eschenbach.) The name of this orchestra is sometimes translated as Berlin Symphony Orchestra (eg here). This can lead to confusion since it has no connection with the current Berliner Symphoniker which might also be thus translated but they didn't exist under that name until 1993, having previously been called the Symphonisches Orchester Berlin. The latter orchestra had in turn been formed in 1966 as a merger of the Berliner Symphonisches Orchester (conductor Carl A. Bünte) und the Deutsches Symphonie-Orchester (info taken from here).The latter should not to be confused with the current Deutsches Symphonie-Orchester Berlin which is the successor of the RIAS Orchestra, later renamed as the Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Berlin.... Any questions?

I believe Staatskapelle Berlin and Berlin Phil are separate from all the above (which I hope is more or less accurate).

PS I checked old programmes to discover that I saw Kurt Sanderling with his Berliner Sinfonie-Orchester as a "Gastspiel" at the Gewandhaus in 1974: Sibelius 7, Tchaikovsky 4 and Mozart Violin Concerto with Mayumi Fujikawa. The programme remarks on the average age of the orchestra being 35. No doubt many of the older Berlin players had hightailed it to the West.

[richardfinegold]

Very interesting. HvK wasn’t the BPO Principal until 1956, but otherwise reasonable

[gurnemanz]

Very interesting. HvK wasn’t the BPO Principal until 1956, but otherwise reasonable

Good point.

[cloughie]

It's a bit confusing with the renamings and mergings that went on following division and reunification. Sanderling's Berliner Sinfonie-Orchester, used in his Shostakovich recordings, was founded in East Berlin in 1952 as a counterpart to Karajan and BPO in the West. (as noted above, it changed its name after reunification to Konzerthausorchester Berlin, current chief conductor Christoph Eschenbach.) The name of this orchestra is sometimes translated as Berlin Symphony Orchestra (eg here). This can lead to confusion since it has no connection with the current Berliner Symphoniker which might also be thus translated but they didn't exist under that name until 1993, having previously been called the Symphonisches Orchester Berlin. The latter orchestra had in turn been formed in 1966 as a merger of the Berliner Symphonisches Orchester (conductor Carl A. Bünte) und the Deutsches Symphonie-Orchester (info taken from here).The latter should not to be confused with the current Deutsches Symphonie-Orchester Berlin which is the successor of the RIAS Orchestra, later renamed as the Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Berlin.... Any questions?

I believe Staatskapelle Berlin and Berlin Phil are separate from all the above (which I hope is more or less accurate).

PS I checked old programmes to discover that I saw Kurt Sanderling with his Berliner Sinfonie-Orchester as a "Gastspiel" at the Gewandhaus in 1974: Sibelius 7, Tchaikovsky 4 and Mozart Violin Concerto with Mayumi Fujikawa. The programme remarks on the average age of the orchestra being 35. No doubt many of the older Berlin players had hightailed it to the West.

…and if all that is not confusing in itself there is also the Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra and the RIAS Orchestra and NDRSO, SWDRSO and other

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_radio_orchestras

[richardfinegold]

I’ve listened to the Berlin SO Brahms cycle now. It was recorded about 15 years after the Dresden cycle and while interesting the Dresden is preferable all around. Not only is the Dresden Statkapelle far superior as an Orchestra but KS had become far more Klempereresque in the later version, only without OK sense of maintaining the long line

[HighlandDougie]

I rather like Klemperer-esque Brahms so OK-slow is OK with me. I have the Dresden cycle as Japanese CDs (Denon - remastered) so will give them a listen later. The later cycle does, at least, benefit from more modern recording (I have them as part of the Profil box dedicated to KS).

[jayne lee wilson]

One used to see the RCA Navigator Box everywhere for the Dresden Cycle, and it was long favoured by the Gramophone and the Penguin Guide (with sonic caveats). Deservedly from a musical POV.....but the Denons are on an altogether higher plane (the sound illuminates the greatness of the readings, especially No.3)..... marvellous of their kind, and better than the Philharmonia/Klemperer (via EMI-Toshiba) for me.....

But I take my Brahms with sparkling Spring Water now. Chamber Orchestras from Scotland (twice - their own mini-tradition), Finland, Sweden.....

[richardfinegold]

I rather like Klemperer-esque Brahms so OK-slow is OK with me. I have the Dresden cycle as Japanese CDs (Denon - remastered) so will give them a listen later. The later cycle does, at least, benefit from more modern recording (I have them as part of the Profil box dedicated to KS).

I have the Dresden cycle as “Blue Spec” CDs from Japan. Definitely an improvement over the RCA recordings, which weren’t as prevalent here as what Jlw described. And it could be that I am just so used to the Dresden cycle that more granitic Berlin cycle hasn’t settled in yet, but I just don’t see myself returning to the Berlin cycle soo.
If KS was given the task of making the Berlin SO a serious rival to HvK’s band on the other side of the Wall, then that doesn’t seem to have gone so well

[jayne lee wilson]

I have the Dresden cycle as “Blue Spec” CDs from Japan. Definitely an improvement over the RCA recordings, which weren’t as prevalent here as what Jlw described. And it could be that I am just so used to the Dresden cycle that more granitic Berlin cycle hasn’t settled in yet, but I just don’t see myself returning to the Berlin cycle soo.
If KS was given the task of making the Berlin SO a serious rival to HvK’s band on the other side of the Wall, then that doesn’t seem to have gone so well

One can't imagine Sanderling ever entertaining such an ambition. Utterly different artist, utterly different aims. But his BSO Sibelius and DSCH cycles are classics, among the greatest of all.

[BBMmk2]

Did Sanderling record any Scriabin?

[Bryn]

Did Sanderling record any Scriabin?

I don't think so, though his son, Thomas, recorded the Piano concerto and Le poème de l'extase.