Wood burning

[ardcarp]

Very glad - or will be soon when the weather gets colder - of our log burner plus 2 stores of dry wood. Just heard that our Gas and Electricity supplier (AVRO) has gone bust.
I'd like an explanation of why our gas suppliers are falling like flies, while our erstwhile European partners are not having the same problem. Nothing to do with Brexit I suppose?

[oddoneout]

Very glad - or will be soon when the weather gets colder - of our log burner plus 2 stores of dry wood. Just heard that our Gas and Electricity supplier (AVRO) has gone bust.
I'd like an explanation of why our gas suppliers are falling like flies, while our erstwhile European partners are not having the same problem. Nothing to do with Brexit I suppose?

In this instance no I don't think it's anything to do with Brexit as such although things would have been better if we were still inside the tent I guess, it's a result of the way energy supply is run in the UK - highly deregulated I think the term is. The combination of high wholesale prices and the Ofgem price cap doesn't leave enough margin for small and newer companies to make enough(or any?) money.
Management of the resulting chaos isn't helped by lack of reserves - the closure of the Rough Field storage (cost too much to maintain according to Centrica) - means little buffer capacity.
Wonder how long it'll be before wood merchants start making the most of the demand boost? And how much of a boost to the proposed Cumbria coal mine? The UK's hosting of COP26 was always going to be a farce, but this turn of events has just added to that.

[AuntDaisy]

You'll just have to "wise up" in accordance with Anne Widdecombe's perennial prescriptions for the good life on the Jeremy Vine Show on CH5 this morning: in her day they didn't have things like central heating; when it got colder you put on a cardigan - simple!

Easy for Widdecombe fair to say - cardigans only help so far and cold / damp takes its toll on respiratory problems, arthritis...

Talking of new power companies, Dave Brown’s Independent cartoon was a glorious blaze of colour.

https://twitter.com/Cartoon4sale/status/1440729590909988867/photo/1

(Higher res. image here)

[french frank]

I'd like an explanation of why our gas suppliers are falling like flies

Part of the explanation on the Good Energy blog (my suppliers, and I wondered whether being small they were at risk).

[ardcarp]

Part of the explanation on the Good Energy blog (my suppliers, and I wondered whether being small they were at risk).

I tried to look and got this.

The resource you are looking for has been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.



Doesn't bode well?

[french frank]

I tried to look and got this.

The resource you are looking for has been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.



Doesn't bode well?

Can't explain that. I've just clicked on the link in my quote in your post and got Why are wholesale energy prices so high and what does it mean?

It includes: "What does it mean for customers?

"All this means that if a supplier has not already purchased the power their customers are likely to use – a practice called hedging – they will have to pay these extraordinarily high prices, which are reaching up to ten times the average over the last decade. Riskier approaches to this have traditionally been used by suppliers to offer very cheap tariffs in order to grow quickly. However, if those customers are on a standard variable tariff restricted by Ofgem’s price cap, or a fixed deal, then suppliers will now be unable to recover those costs."

Might explain why smaller suppliers have been failing.

PS Must be sound: Ecotricity are trying to buy it,

[Dave2002]

Based on 45 years of wood burning:
1 Beech - kiln dried
2 Ash- kiln dried
3 Elm -very unlikely to be available but excellent if dry
4 Oak -kiln dried but as mentioned earlier best to put on a hot bed created by other wood
5 Birch- very easy to light when dry but not long-lasting
6 Apple/Pear/Cherry/Plum- all good but unlikely to be available in sufficient quantity
7 Walnut - good when dry but rarely available
8 More or less any other dry hardwood
9 Softwood - easy to light when dry but not long lasting

Looks like a very helpful listing.

Thanks.

[Serial_Apologist]

In this instance no I don't think it's anything to do with Brexit as such although things would have been better if we were still inside the tent I guess, it's a result of the way energy supply is run in the UK - highly deregulated I think the term is. The combination of high wholesale prices and the Ofgem price cap doesn't leave enough margin for small and newer companies to make enough(or any?) money.
Management of the resulting chaos isn't helped by lack of reserves - the closure of the Rough Field storage (cost too much to maintain according to Centrica) - means little buffer capacity.
Wonder how long it'll be before wood merchants start making the most of the demand boost? And how much of a boost to the proposed Cumbria coal mine? The UK's hosting of COP26 was always going to be a farce, but this turn of events has just added to that.

Which is exactly the point I was making elsewhere on the forum yesterday about the fatal mistake made by companies in the 1980s of going for the "just-in-time" principle, based absurdly on the limited provisionality of having product, part- or wholly-maunfactured, lying around between and after manufacture waiting to be shifted. Any system without built-in flexibility to account for variables and externalities is always bound to fail. But of course anyone not observing its desiderata in this competitive scramble of a world could go to the wall, couldn't they?!

[oddoneout]

Which is exactly the point I was making elsewhere on the forum yesterday about the fatal mistake made by companies in the 1980s of going for the "just-in-time" principle, based absurdly on the limited provisionality of having product, part- or wholly-maunfactured, lying around between and after manufacture waiting to be shifted. Any system without built-in flexibility to account for variables and externalities is always bound to fail. But of course anyone not observing its desiderata in this competitive scramble of a world could go to the wall, couldn't they?!

Worst of it is that nothing will change as a result of this. It will fall into the "lessons will be learned"- aka reports put through shredder, "no-one could have foreseen"- aka Afghanistan, and all the various mechanisms for ensuring that money goes into the desired pockets rather than benefiting the users.
It would help of course if a grown-up, joined-up, long term energy policy was in place that not only looks for and supports alternative power generation sources but also ensures that energy so generated can actually be put to use to the fullest extent, all the while learning from, observing, and ideally also contributing to, developments around the world. Reality is out of date pork pie aloft.

[Serial_Apologist]

Worst of it is that nothing will change as a result of this. It will fall into the "lessons will be learned"- aka reports put through shredder, "no-one could have foreseen"- aka Afghanistan, and all the various mechanisms for ensuring that money goes into the desired pockets rather than benefiting the users.
It would help of course if a grown-up, joined-up, long term energy policy was in place ...

Tied into a likewise fully integrated, [w]hol[e]istically conceived system of economic and social planning making up the total picture

that not only looks for and supports alternative power generation sources but also ensures that energy so generated can actually be put to use to the fullest extent, all the while learning from, observing, and ideally also contributing to, developments around the world. Reality is out of date pork pie aloft.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm led to thinking that some advance word of this impending hike in energy charges was being voiced in the board rooms of the large companies back in August.

What leads me to thinking this is that at that time I received online a request for gas and electricity meter readings, as would be expected. Upon entering these a message popped up remarking that my readings if true indicated less usage than expected - this was because this year during the hot weather, like two years ago, I switched off the timer and resorted to short periods using the immersion heater, resulting in welcome notification from my previous supplier of an approximate halving of charges for the forthcoming quarter. This has not happened this year from the supplier I have been using since 2020, EDF, who then, last month, informed me that I would be continuing to be charged at the existing rate for gas & electricity, £84 per month as it happens. I went with EDF n the first place because they were charging less than the previous supplier once they realised I had reverted to gas, and at the recommendation of a friend who vouched for their back-up service. While disappointed that my bills will not be coming down - one reason beyond the obvious being that it hardly discourages my energy use reductions - it seems that the term "fixed tariff" is being used to apply to charges as well as the duration of the contract with EDF. It is of course difficult to assess whether or not my new demand, starting from this month, has been left unchanged so as to be in line with the big anticipated hikes we were all been told we were facing weeks before the present crisis for many smaller suppliers - I shall have to wait to find out.

[ardcarp]

All this means that if a supplier has not already purchased the power their customers are likely to use – a practice called hedging – they will have to pay these extraordinarily high prices, which are reaching up to ten times the average over the last decade.

I've always thought 'hedging' (which I suppose is used in the same way as 'hedging one's bets') was a particularly dastardly practice used by the mega-wealthy so that they win even if they lose. Sometimes insurance-based?

Letting public services (gas, electricity, water, telephone, transport) fall into the hands of profiteers, hedged or not, is pretty outrageous when you think about it.

We seem to have strayed from wood-burning.

[Serial_Apologist]

I've always thought 'hedging' (which I suppose is used in the same way as 'hedging one's bets') was a particularly dastardly practice used by the mega-wealthy so that they win even if they lose. Sometimes insurance-based?

Letting public services (gas, electricity, water, telephone, transport) fall into the hands of profiteers, hedged or not, is pretty outrageous when you think about it.

We seem to have strayed from wood-burning.

I'm not sure if the term first became familiar after the Mortgage default crisis in America of the early 2000s, resulting from such banking practices leaving unwitting mortgage holders sold a pup deep in negative equity, or if it applies to investing in so-called Hedge Funds. My investment portfolio manager tells me he does not go in for these in my case, given that I am governed within Moderate Risk terms!

[oddoneout]

I'm led to thinking that some advance word of this impending hike in energy charges was being voiced in the board rooms of the large companies back in August.

What leads me to thinking this is that at that time I received online a request for gas and electricity meter readings, as would be expected. Upon entering these a message popped up remarking that my readings if true indicated less usage than expected - this was because this year during the hot weather, like two years ago, I switched off the timer and resorted to short periods using the immersion heater, resulting in welcome notification from my previous supplier of an approximate halving of charges for the forthcoming quarter. This has not happened this year from the supplier I have been using since 2020, EDF, who then, last month, informed me that I would be continuing to be charged at the existing rate for gas & electricity, £84 per month as it happens. I went with EDF n the first place because they were charging less than the previous supplier once they realised I had reverted to gas, and at the recommendation of a friend who vouched for their back-up service. While disappointed that my bills will not be coming down - one reason beyond the obvious being that it hardly discourages my energy use reductions - it seems that the term "fixed tariff" is being used to apply to charges as well as the duration of the contract with EDF. It is of course difficult to assess whether or not my new demand, starting from this month, has been left unchanged so as to be in line with the big anticipated hikes we were all been told we were facing weeks before the present crisis for many smaller suppliers - I shall have to wait to find out.

That may be so but there is also the standard industry practice of overcharging during the warmer months by not adjusting down to decreased usage, facilitated by monthly direct debit payments; I think the official reason still given is to help flatten out the higher costs during winter, so less shock to the consumer. I suspect it has more to do with maintaining income levels and reducing the risk exposure from customers getting into financial difficulties and defaulting on their bills. During an unhappy period I had with npower years ago I repeatedly challenged the monthly direct debit amount ( an arrangement I had been forced onto and didn't want in the first place) and said I did not want to make interest free loans to a £multi million company. Now the rules have changed somewhat I think and they should pay back credit automatically over a certain amount and on demand otherwise, but at that time they wouldn't. Fortunately I found out about a company that much better suited my needs so I changed.

[Serial_Apologist]

That may be so but there is also the standard industry practice of overcharging during the warmer months by not adjusting down to decreased usage, facilitated by monthly direct debit payments; I think the official reason still given is to help flatten out the higher costs during winter, so less shock to the consumer. I suspect it has more to do with maintaining income levels and reducing the risk exposure from customers getting into financial difficulties and defaulting on their bills. During an unhappy period I had with npower years ago I repeatedly challenged the monthly direct debit amount ( an arrangement I had been forced onto and didn't want in the first place) and said I did not want to make interest free loans to a £multi million company. Now the rules have changed somewhat I think and they should pay back credit automatically over a certain amount and on demand otherwise, but at that time they wouldn't. Fortunately I found out about a company that much better suited my needs so I changed.

I dare say you're right, odders - thanks.