HOW do we HELP and CHANGE the CHILDREN of the INNERCITIES

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

..grown ups playing with and talking with kids does wonderful things ...

my friend is a teaching assistant in a primary school [or whatever they are called these days] and they had a games day ...old favourites like lotto, snakes and ladders and simple card games ... none of the children had seen them before and none knew how to play .... they had a wonderful day learning and couldn't get enough ... the implications for development are pretty obvious ...

talking with children is vital, as well as reading stories, if not they do not talk with adults they will learn fewer words and accept peer group speech .... so they will not read. .. not talking much and not reading means a severe and worsening deficit in educational attainment ... this has been known for decades [cf Basil Bernstein's work and many others] .... the idiots are still arguing over which method to teach reading to children who can't talk .... think about that ...what do they hear in their heads - if anything - when they see a printed word .... we teach reading far too early and not nearly enough social and physical skills to the tinies ... learning to read at 7 or 8 is so much easier ...... because you can talk, have a vocabulary and do not feel alienated in the class room ...

talk and play are practice for life, if you can not talk or read very well you will not sense the impact of your behaviour on others, be condemned to a life time of self expression using your big muscles and bodily action and fail to develop empathy .... violent criminality is but a small step, and alas serious mental disorder too ... never mind your employment prospects ...

the level of ability displayed by the staff of residential care for the aged, the current barrel scrapers in the labour market, reflects the talk and play deprivation in their lives .... there is a scandal there that is worse than the riots ... another product of unregulated 'free markets' .. the next time you encounter that dull crass unresponsiveness in a minimum wage service worker in the health, care, or commercial sectors think of their childhood ... how did they get that way? they are the ones who got jobs!

inequality is not economic purely, cultural inequality has massive consequences for us all .... whatever the politics the answer starts with talk and play with toddlers

[scottycelt]

I do believe the Scotty/Am51 dialogue [including that of BBC P3 board] must now be getting to a length, where it might be published like those 'Dear Jim' letters in the Private Eye....Most invigorating in it's 'toujour la politesse'....

Thank you, eighth ... how 'charitable' ... actually, I though I'd have a well-deserved rest from said dialogue and cut down a feral tree growing in our garden .... now I wonder if Cameron and Milliband have any bright ideas to how to cut down on feral trees ... sadly, heavy rain has, temporarily at least, swiftly put paid to that unusually bright idea of my own.

[amateur51]

I do believe the Scotty/Am51 dialogue [including that of BBC P3 board] must now be getting to a length, where it might be published like those 'Dear Jim' letters in the Private Eye....Most invigorating in it's 'toujour la politesse'....

Praise indeed, eighth

[amateur51]

Oh, I reckon I've got it all right, amateur ...

The promotion of religion is not a 'charitable purpose per se' but some religious bodies (like many of their secular counterparts) do enjoy 'charitable status'.

Stonewall which promotes Lesbian and Gay rights has equally enjoyed 'charitable status' since 2003.

But because their work is charitable, scotty. Religious groups are charitable by definition Stonewall was founded in 1986 (I think) but struggled for years with the 'shall we/shan't we apply for charitable status' quandary because of the prevailing zeitgeist

Geddit?

Gottit?

Good!

[scottycelt]

But because their work is charitable, scotty. Religious groups are charitable by definition Stonewall was founded in 1986 (I think) but struggled for years with the 'shall we/shan't we apply for charitable status' quandary because of the prevailing zeitgeist

Geddit?

Gottit?

Good!

According to WIKI, amateur ...

The Charities Act 2006 provides the following list of charitable purposes.^[9]

1. the prevention or relief of poverty
2. the advancement of education
3. the advancement of religion
4. the advancement of health or the saving of lives
5. the advancement of citizenship or community development
6. the advancement of the arts, culture, heritage or science
7. the advancement of amateur sport
8. the advancement of human rights, conflict resolution or reconciliation or the promotion of religious or racial harmony or equality and diversity
9. the advancement of environmental protection or improvement
10. the relief of those in need, by reason of youth, age, ill-health, disability, financial hardship or other disadvantage
11. the advancement of animal welfare
12. the promotion of the efficiency of the armed forces of the Crown or of the police, fire and rescue services or ambulance services
13. other purposes currently recognised as charitable and any new charitable purposes which are similar to another charitable purpose.

In order to attain 'charitable status' the overall purpose of any organisation must be deemed mostly charitable. The main established religious organisations very obviously come firmly into that category and are rightly tax-exempt.

I don't have a particular problem regarding Stonewall's current status. I merely query why you should think it is any more worthy of tax privileges than many religious groups who aid distressed people irrespective of 'sexual orientation' and who have little or no religious belief?

[amateur51]

I don't have a particular problem regarding Stonewall's current status. I merely query why you should think it is any more worthy of tax privileges than many religious groups who aid distressed people irrespective of 'sexual orientation' and who have little or no religious belief?

Erm it was you who raised Stonewall, ma wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie,not I

In my perfect world, we'd get rid of the advancement of religion purpose and use the other charitable purposes - plenty of religiously-inspired organisation do magnificent work with homeless people, people living in poverty, people who are sick, etc, etc.

Mind you, I know from long personal experience of assessing community organisations that organisations that 'aid distressed people irrespective of 'sexual orientation'' do no such thing, preferring to hide behind the sophistry of 'love the sinner, hate the sin'

[eighthobstruction]

..grown ups playing with and talking with kids does wonderful things ...

my friend is a teaching assistant in a primary school [or whatever they are called these days] and they had a games day ...old favourites like lotto, snakes and ladders and simple card games ... none of the children had seen them before and none knew how to play .... they had a wonderful day learning and couldn't get enough ... the implications for development are pretty obvious ...

talking with children is vital, as well as reading stories, if not they do not talk with adults they will learn fewer words and accept peer group speech .... so they will not read. .. not talking much and not reading means a severe and worsening deficit in educational attainment ... this has been known for decades [cf Basil Bernstein's work and many others] .... the idiots are still arguing over which method to teach reading to children who can't talk .... think about that ...what do they hear in their heads - if anything - when they see a printed word .... we teach reading far too early and not nearly enough social and physical skills to the tinies ... learning to read at 7 or 8 is so much easier ...... because you can talk, have a vocabulary and do not feel alienated in the class room ...

talk and play are practice for life, if you can not talk or read very well you will not sense the impact of your behaviour on others, be condemned to a life time of self expression using your big muscles and bodily action and fail to develop empathy .... violent criminality is but a small step, and alas serious mental disorder too ... never mind your employment prospects ...

the level of ability displayed by the staff of residential care for the aged, the current barrel scrapers in the labour market, reflects the talk and play deprivation in their lives .... there is a scandal there that is worse than the riots ... another product of unregulated 'free markets' .. the next time you encounter that dull crass unresponsiveness in a minimum wage service worker in the health, care, or commercial sectors think of their childhood ... how did they get that way? they are the ones who got jobs!

inequality is not economic purely, cultural inequality has massive consequences for us all .... whatever the politics the answer starts with talk and play with toddlers

I could not agree more....that's absolutely it....THE FIRST STEP....schools obviously have great deal of responsibility to 'civilise and fire imagination/aspiration' At the moment we have a huge number [and not only parents of rioters and ASBO holder]of parents, who even if they are capable of keeping their children in line, ARE, unable to supply the knowledge and inspiration to create a youth that is able to see beyond 'the street'.

[scottycelt]

Thank you, amateur, at least I can always rely on a response, appropriate or otherwise, from your goodself ...

You might conceivably brush up on your knowledge of the Auld Mither Tongue, though ...

[amateur51]

Thank you, amateur, at least I can always rely on a response, appropriate or otherwise, from your goodself ...

You might conceivably brush up on your knowledge of the Auld Mither Tongue, though ...

I cut'n'pasted it, scotty - full marks for knowing what to look up tho, eh?

[Serial_Apologist]

talking with children is vital, as well as reading stories, if not they do not talk with adults they will learn fewer words and accept peer group speech .... so they will not read. .. not talking much and not reading means a severe and worsening deficit in educational attainment ... this has been known for decades [cf Basil Bernstein's work and many others] .... the idiots are still arguing over which method to teach reading to children who can't talk .... think about that ...what do they hear in their heads - if anything - when they see a printed word .... we teach reading far too early and not nearly enough social and physical skills to the tinies ... learning to read at 7 or 8 is so much easier ...... because you can talk, have a vocabulary and do not feel alienated in the class room ...

Just had a EUREKA moment reading that. Now picking myself up off the floor, that triggered a few memories - some too painful, but specifically the demand for rote-learned poetry at school... which I, in particular I now recall, just could not do. At age 11, the words on the page meant NOTHING to me. For years, decades after, poetry had become something to be avoided at all costs. But, to diffuse an otherwise heavy trip, a personal recollection.

We were all required to learn the famous poem about the Assyrian coming down like a wolf on the fold - whichever Victorian it was by. Each boy (it was a boy's own prep school, ca. 1956) got up and recited it in front of the class. When it came to my turn, I started: "The Assyrian came down like a wolf on the fold; His cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold; and the... sheen of their... spears was like... stars on the sssea; and... and" ... the whole class, including the master, had its eyes fixed on me in palpable tension ... "And the dish ran away with the spoon!" I concluded with triumphant gesture. The class exploded into the loudest uncontrolled hysterical laughter anyone has probably heard from 20 11-year olds. Except for the master, Mr Valder, that is. "Silence! silence!! SILENCE!!!" he bellowed. The laughter died down. " You, "******" (my surname)", he shouted, face purple, foaming, eyes bulging, "WRITE OUT THAT POEM FORTY TIMES, AND HAVE IT ON MY DESK BY EIGHT IN THE MORNING!"

Such things, one never forgets

[amateur51]

Just had a EUREKA moment reading that. Now picking myself up off the floor, that triggered a few memories - some too painful, but specifically the demand for rote-learned poetry at school... which I, in particular I now recall, just could not do. At age 11, the words on the page meant NOTHING to me. For years, decades after, poetry had become something to be avoided at all costs. But, to diffuse an otherwise heavy trip, a personal recollection.

We were all required to learn the famous poem about the Assyrian coming down like a wolf on the fold - whichever Victorian it was by. Each boy (it was a boy's own prep school, ca. 1956) got up and recited it in front of the class. When it came to my turn, I started: "The Assyrian came down like a wolf on the fold; His cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold; and the... sheen of their... spears was like... stars on the sssea; and... and" ... the whole class, including the master, had its eyes fixed on me in palpable tension ... "And the dish ran away with the spoon!" I concluded with triumphant gesture. The class exploded into the loudest uncontrolled hysterical laughter anyone has probably heard from 20 11-year olds. Except for the master, Mr Valder, that is. "Silence! silence!! SILENCE!!!" he bellowed. The laughter died down. " You, "******" (my surname)", he shouted, face purple, foaming, eyes bulging, "WRITE OUT THAT POEM FORTY TIMES, AND HAVE IT ON MY DESK BY EIGHT IN THE MORNING!"

Such things, one never forgets

Brilliant story, S_A!

It's your actual Lord Byron, innit

[vinteuil]

We were all required to learn the famous poem about the Assyrian coming down like a wolf on the fold - whichever Victorian it was by. :

Byron, The Destruction of Sennacherib...

The Assyrian came down like the wolf on the fold,
And his cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold;
And the sheen of their spears was like stars on the sea,
When the blue wave rolls nightly on the Galilee.

Like the leaves of the forest when summer is green,
That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when autumn hath blown,
That host on the morrow lay withered and strown.

For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed;
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and forever grew still!

And there lay the steed with his nostril all wide,
But through it there rolled not the breath of his pride;
And the foam of his gasping lay white on the turf,
And cold as the spray of the rock-beating surf.

And there lay the rider distorted and pale,
With the dew on his brow, and the rust on his mail:
And the tents were all silent, the banners alone,
The lances unlifted, the trumpets unblown.

And the widows of Ashur are loud in their wail,
And the idols are broke in the temple of Baal;
And the might of the Gentile, unsmote by the sword,
Hath melted like snow in the glance of the Lord!

PS I don't see Byron as a Victorian - for start, the dates are wrong [1788-1824]: and his flashy raunchy behaviour ( and not just the happily admitted-to pederasty... ) are much more what we associate with Regency rather than Victorian...

[Serial_Apologist]

THANK you, vinteuil!!!!

I hadn't a clue what sheens and cohorts and whatnot were, for the life of me!

I'll re-read it - and re-learn it - when I come down off this natural ("honest, me lud!") high I seem to be on.

[PatrickOD]

..... that reminds me ......

http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/very-like-a-whale/

[Serial_Apologist]

That's funny, PatrickOD!