HOW do we HELP and CHANGE the CHILDREN of the INNERCITIES

[eighthobstruction]

Who could argue with that....????....[only a small problem in some areas where integration is muted]....but otherwise yes ....OF COURSE it goes completely opposite to what is actually happening as I see it....Mr Gove has some very nice 'community schools' planned, but lets ignore them....but his take on education generally seems be about the top 50% doesn't it. I am unable [dyx] to get my head around spelling Baccawotsit.

Again will such things get ££££....

[amateur51]

Sorry ..

She's on a roll today, that one, scotty.

You have to mind your P&Qs or she'll have you

As I know to my cost

OUCH!

[french frank]

Again will such things get ££££....

Of course they will! Scrap Trident and use the money for schools and teachers in deprived areas.

[amateur51]

Of course they will! Scrap Trident and use the money for schools and teachers in deprived areas.

Right on, french frank!

And sell those rotten banks that we're all directors of currently

[eighthobstruction]

Of course they will! Scrap Trident and use the money for schools and teachers in deprived areas.

yes please

[antongould]

I seem to have strayed into the wrong thread. I thought it was: HOW do we HELP and CHANGE the CHILDREN of the INNERCITIES ?

The first thing I'd do would be look at the schools. I'd abolish the national curriculum, SATs and league tables; build
more, smaller, community schools, primary and secondary, and train the best teachers to go into the areas that needed most help. The recreational facilities would be available in the evenings to provide centres where the children could meet and engage in a mix of activities. Teachers would educate and prepare children in smaller classes for life, not for exams
or jobs.

IMHO very well said ff, you may be miles off the mark on Breakfast but here you are spot on. It is much as the Archbishop of York said on Question Time last night - something like the best way to prepare a pig for Market is to feed it well evey day not weigh it every day! The money could be found Trident would be a good start and there's the bureaucracy that governments always talk about reducing but never do because they don't know how.

[scottycelt]

The first thing I'd do would be look at the schools. I'd abolish the national curriculum, SATs and league tables; build more, smaller, community schools, primary and secondary, and train the best teachers to go into the areas that needed most help. The recreational facilities would be available in the evenings to provide centres where the children could meet and engage in a mix of activities. Teachers would educate and prepare children in smaller classes for life, not for exams or jobs.

And how would these teachers 'educate and prepare' children for life ? If not for exams and jobs, what exactly?

Is it not the direct responsibility of parents to do that (life preparation)? In any case, who would decide on the 'best' teachers?

More to the point, if teaching is not about exams and jobs what precisely do you mean by 'best' in the first place ?

Have you in mind a kind of secular liberal moral code or are you advocating a return to something like traditional Christian values?

So many questions ...

[Ariosto]

I seem to have strayed into the wrong thread. I thought it was: HOW do we HELP and CHANGE the CHILDREN of the INNERCITIES ?

The first thing I'd do would be look at the schools. I'd abolish the national curriculum, SATs and league tables; build more, smaller, community schools, primary and secondary, and train the best teachers to go into the areas that needed most help. The recreational facilities would be available in the evenings to provide centres where the children could meet and engage in a mix of activities. Teachers would educate and prepare children in smaller classes for life, not for exams or jobs.

I think I would have to totally agree with you on all of those points.

[Ariosto]

And how would these teachers 'educate and prepare' children for life ? If not for exams and jobs, what exactly?

Is it not the direct responsibility of parents to do that (life preparation)? In any case, who would decide on the 'best' teachers?

More to the point, if teaching is not about exams and jobs what precisely do you mean by 'best' in the first place ?

Have you in mind a kind of secular liberal moral code or are you advocating a return to something like traditional Christian values?

So many questions ...

Scotty, with all due respect, please give up promoting religion. It has NEVER worked, and is just another lame duck excuse for a failure of society, and I mean by that, a failure by ALL of us.

[scottycelt]

Scotty, with all due respect, please give up promoting religion. It has NEVER worked, and is just another lame duck excuse for a failure of society, and I mean by that, a failure by ALL of us.

With a similar amount of due respect in return, Ariosto, can you point to the section in my post where I was promoting religion (or anything else), apart from parents taking responsibility for their children?

I merely asked a number of the more obvious questions to clarify the arguments of another member.

Due to the fact that certain questions might be uncomfortable to the more sensitive among us, are you, therefore, seriously suggesting that they should never be asked ?

[Ariosto]

With a similar amount of due respect in return, Ariosto, can you point to the section in my post where I was promoting religion (or anything else), apart from parents taking responsibility for their children?

I merely asked a number of the more obvious questions to clarify the arguments of another member.

Due to the fact that certain questions might be uncomfortable to the more sensitive among us, are you, therefore, seriously suggesting that they should never be asked ?

I suppose scotty, that I have to admit to a knee jerk reaction there! I think it must have been the "Christian values" bit that pushed my blood pressure up!

[scottycelt]

I suppose scotty, that I have to admit to a knee jerk reaction there! I think it must have been the "Christian values" bit that pushed my blood pressure up!

No problem, Ariosto ... know the feeling only too well!

[Serial_Apologist]

No problem, Ariosto ... know the feeling only too well!

It would be great if we could continue keeping our disagreements on this level!

[Anna]

Well, to be honest, as a family (non-Church going) we were brought up with 'Christian Values' i.e., if you lied, swore, cheated or thieved you got a clip round the ears!

Youth workers (youth clubs as I mentioned before), outreach workers to get them involved in whatever interests them,, music workshops (social worker friend in London has been involved in setting one up for black youngsters with mental health problems in West London and has got a lot of semi-professional non-rap musicians involved), dance workshops, drama and comedy workshops (to increase language skills), use school running tracks, football pitches after hours. Get them off the streets and use their energy to create something. Get parents involved from junior school upwards, via the PTA, get parents into the schools (certainly here parents go in to listen to reading groups, take baking sessions) so they can see what their kids are doing. All schools to include compulsory parenting lessons in an effort to cut teenage pregnancies and get the parents to attend as well, make schools a community.

Education, agree with ff particularly about SATS (Wales & Scotland got rid of them years ago) more male teachers in primary/junior schools as a father figure to replace absent Dads (and this cross references the Role Model thread where so many cite their teachers as being an influence on them)

[eighthobstruction]

We all know the 'parental responsibility' gig is especially important here....but how !

What mechanism....for surely it has to be a mechanism, might be provided to ensure that attention is focussed on this issue....

In the first place it has to be to identify [quantify] the parents, and then to see if they even care....

Any child 'helped' at school, any child who is made to understand the ' big issues' at school....may still have to go home to an uncaring/uncivilised home of parent/parents/siblings/environment, in an innercity of moral deficit and decay. In other words going home to the same old thing.

It is a shame that school is out at the moment, because there is a chance it woud be a heavy talking pointing point.