All a question of degree

[ardcarp]

I'll start off by saying that this post is not meant to be snobby or to belittle anyone's achievement.
I met a...shall we say 'older'... lady today who had a BA certificate hanging on her wall, but dated 2019. I congratulated her and wondered what route she had taken to study as a mature student. She chuckled somewhat and said she hadn't. Apparently Westminster Institute of Education (originally a Methodist foundation in London) moved itself to Oxford in the 1950s. Latterly it became 'adopted' by Oxford Brookes University. Recently, students who had gained a Certificate in Education any time in the past were deemed to be graduates and offered a BA degree retrospectively. I found this rather strange, though didn't say so. I also wondered if some element of fund-raising was involved in upgrading the qualification. Cynical old me. I didn't inquire about that either! She was a lovely person.

Any views?

[french frank]

I wonder whether she had an old Cert. Ed. which was a 3-year course and could be extended for a B. Ed.? I think that was abolished when a degree course was required for teaching. If fundraising, it seems as valid as Oxford selling MAs to its graduates for the appropriate sum . In other places you have to work for it!

[teamsaint]

I wonder whether she had an old Cert. Ed. which was a 3-year course and could be extended for a B. Ed.? I think that was abolished when a degree course was required for teaching. If fundraising, it seems as valid as Oxford selling MAs to its graduates for the appropriate sum . In other places you have to work for it!

I think for some time, until maybe the mid 70’s you could do a Cert Ed in two years.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Mrs CS did a 4th year to get a B.Ed (London University) at Roehampton Inst. of Education.

[Constantbee]

I'll start off by saying that this post is not meant to be snobby or to belittle anyone's achievement.
I met a...shall we say 'older'... lady today who had a BA certificate hanging on her wall, but dated 2019. I congratulated her and wondered what route she had taken to study as a mature student. She chuckled somewhat and said she hadn't. Apparently Westminster Institute of Education (originally a Methodist foundation in London) moved itself to Oxford in the 1950s. Latterly it became 'adopted' by Oxford Brookes University. Recently, students who had gained a Certificate in Education any time in the past were deemed to be graduates and offered a BA degree retrospectively. I found this rather strange, though didn't say so. I also wondered if some element of fund-raising was involved in upgrading the qualification. Cynical old me. I didn't inquire about that either! She was a lovely person.

Any views?

If she was a primary school teacher I’d want to know how good her maths was. GCE Maths never used to be a requirement for entry onto Cert Ed courses. It is now, though. Anybody recruiting somebody with an upgraded degree certificate in education ought to be made aware of that. Well, you did ask, didn't you.

[oddoneout]

Given the issues/controversy about grade inflation the gap between such older qualifications and current day ones is likely nowhere near as great as it might once have been?

[ardcarp]

I'm a bit hazy about it now, but 'in the olden days' (i.e. when I was a teenager) I think one had to 'matriculate' before being admitted to Oxbridge and many other universities. This meant having a bundle of O-levels including Latin, English and Maths...maybe a language too. This was regardless of which subject you were going to study. It would seem a good idea to have something similar for prospective teachers, even Primary School ones. Or am I being ridiculously old-fashioned? I never regret having learned Latin, useless though many think it to be, and rather wish I'd done Greek as well.

[crb11]

I'm a bit hazy about it now, but 'in the olden days' (i.e. when I was a teenager) I think one had to 'matriculate' before being admitted to Oxbridge and many other universities. This meant having a bundle of O-levels including Latin, English and Maths...maybe a language too. This was regardless of which subject you were going to study. It would seem a good idea to have something similar for prospective teachers, even Primary School ones. Or am I being ridiculously old-fashioned? I never regret having learned Latin, useless though many think it to be, and rather wish I'd done Greek as well.

Cambridge when I applied (late 80s) required Maths, English, a modern language, a science and a humanity at O level. The Latin requirement had been dropped not too long previously.

I would agree that teachers ought to have something similar, especially primary school teachers who are teaching essentially the entire syllabus. At least they now have to at least have a pass in Maths and English which wasn't the case when I was at school: one of mine was barely teaching any maths, which my parents questioned and discovered she had only a poor CSE in it. She didn't know who Gustav Mahler was either, I discovered during a class discussion.

[Old Grumpy]

If she was a primary school teacher I’d want to know how good her maths was. GCE Maths never used to be a requirement for entry onto Cert Ed courses. It is now, though. Anybody recruiting somebody with an upgraded degree certificate in education ought to be made aware of that.

Reading between the lines of the OP, I would have thought this would not be a problem for any of today's primary school children in this case!

[kernelbogey]

I met a...shall we say 'older'... lady today who had a BA certificate hanging on her wall, but dated 2019. Any views?

Who publicly displays their degree certificate? And why?

[Richard Barrett]

Who publicly displays their degree certificate? And why?

I guess it's one way of remembering where it is if you ever need it. I have no idea where mine are.

[Bryn]

I guess it's one way of remembering where it is if you ever need it. I have no idea where mine are.

Nor have I, mine. I also refused to pay up to have the BSc 'upgraded'[sic] from the CNAA version to one issued as from the renamed Middlesex University.

[burning dog]

I was puzzled at the difficulties PPE caused the Government when so many of the cabinet had a degree in it..

[vinteuil]

.

... I needed to have a copy of my BA susstiffykyt for my first employer, a foreign government.

When it arrived, my mother was tickled by the wording, which she read out giving great emphasis to the word in bold -

"I certify that it appears by the Registers of the University that Mr ******* satisfied the Examiners in the Final Honour School in Trinity Term 1974..... and having, in accordance with the Statutes of the University, kept the prescribed residence and passed all necessary Examinations was on the third day of August 1974 formally admitted to the degree of Bachelor of Arts... "

Mothers, eh? dontcha luv'em


.

[Bryn]

I was puzzled at the difficulties PPE caused the Government when so many of the cabinet had a degree in it..

But not Mr Johnson, of course.