Riots

[amateur51]

Are Melanie's quite reasonable and more than likely widely-held views on the matter (and apparently equated by some here with the Blackshirts and the Norwegian Mass Murderer ) really that far removed from those of the current leader of the Labour Party?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14503023

Erm, yes scotty. First of all, he's apologising for mistakes that the Labour party made while in Government (Melanie never apologises for her mistakes, simply because she never makes any, it's aximatic!); and secondly Miliband is at least offering the start of a solution whereas Melanie is just wriggling up to her shoulderblades in society's ordure, loving every moment of it, saying "See I was right, I was right all along, I WAS RIGHT!!"

[french frank]

My memory of Bristol's public transport was that, on seeking help in the street, you'd be told to take a Badger as far as X and then proceed by Hare to Y where you'd change on to a Ferret ... or somesuch

Solved that one. All the transport round here - trains and buses - has been bought up by First.

[amateur51]

Solved that one. All the transport round here - trains and buses - has been bought up by First.

YAY!!

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

hear hear!

[Lateralthinking1]

Seconded. It is spot on.

[amateur51]

hear hear!

Lovely stuff, Mr Oborne!

Many thanks, Calum

[Serial_Apologist]

Some people on what one tends to think of as the traditional Right do have consciences; it has been interesting to witness Mr Oborne shifting leftwards in the face of actuality over the past year or so. His remarks are reflected in something of a convergence between opposite poles on this thread, too.

I'd better shut up at this point.

[Ariosto]

Some people on what one tends to think of as the traditional Right do have consciences; it has been interesting to witness Mr Oborne shifting leftwards in the face of actuality over the past year or so. His remarks are reflected in something of a convergence between opposite poles on this thread, too.

I'd better shut up at this point.

Maybe you should!!

The mistake was that the riots took place in the wrong places.

They should have happened in Downing Street, Whitehall, and associated areas.

Don't trash the areas where normal downtrodden people live. Do millionaire's row in Hampstead. Or Eaton Square where I believe Thatcher and the Bliar's live.

[Serial_Apologist]

That reminds me of the one time I was mugged. "Why don't you go off and mug some rich bar steward instead?" I told them.

I think the Bliars live in Connaught Square, in the triangle between Bayswater Road and Edgeware Road. But I wouldn't want to "encourager les autres".

[Ariosto]

That reminds me of the one time I was mugged. "Why don't you go off and mug some rich bar steward instead?" I told them.

I think the Bliars live in Connaught Square, in the triangle between Bayswater Road and Edgeware Road. But I wouldn't want to "encourager les autres".

OK, I'm off right now ... Connaught Square you say ...

[amateur51]

A 15-year-old boy who was pictured trying to prise open shutters of a shop in Salford has been arrested after his mother handed him in to police.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14501790

[ahinton]

You misunderstand ... I was totally agreeing with FF's view not disputing it! I merely inferred that a cry for vengeance was understandable under the circumstances but certainly not the answer!

OK - fair point and accepted!

These are separate issues ... if we need to build more prisons or merely use them mainly for offences of violence so be it. Your other point about some employers not hiring even university graduates because of economic conditions is totally irrelevant to this discussion, surely.

No in both cases; it's no good people saying that rioters and looters should be locked up if there's nowhere that this can be done for most of them. As to the problem of getting jobs, my point was, quite simply, that ex-prisoners might not be at a much greater disadvantage in the employment market than anyone else.

[amateur51]

This is a short film of the young man who predicted on 31 July 2011 that there would be riots in the Tottenham area, giving his thoughts in the aftermath ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/12/riot-predict-trouble-not-over

Perhaps we should listen to what he has to say?

[amateur51]

As the processing by the courts of those arrested for the rioting and looting continues this week, a magistrate of almost 20 years' experience gives his views on what can be done:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/11/looters-beak-magistrates-young-offenders

[Lateralthinking1]

A few randoms:

We already have the robots. They are called senior civil servants. Unfortunately, it will take many centuries to programme them morally. Such was my experience in 2010 that for the first time ever it crossed my mind what they might be like under an extreme right government. The kind that has a policy to send folk to the gas chambers. My view is that we already have the personalities in place who would facilitate that process. I don't believe that many would let scruples get in the way of their "neutrality" and personal ambition. And that thought is truly depressing and frightening.

I very much enjoyed Am's clip of the Tottenham guy and also the one of the lady with plenty of character. It was good on the first that they should do a follow-up. They should stick with him during the next few weeks. That punch I guess is designed to show what would happen if it were in the ownership of those who were moving in a different moral direction. As for the second clip, I thought that the suggestion the rioters were causing problems because they weren't "getting any" carried some potency. I doubt that many would take to it kindly and it could have a dulling down effect if used widely.

I have been trying to get my head round the issue as to why national political buildings weren't targeted. There are numerous reasons - it takes more effort to get there, such places don't house the commercial goodies, the ages and backgrounds of the rioters are probably such that they have little clarity or interest in politics per se. I wonder though whether there was some roundabout assumption that those at the top would be more lenient if they themselves weren't affected. The question is whether with any repeat of these events, the rioters would now use the tried and tested methods or feel braver. I have a feeling that if it were the latter, we would find quickly that the courts are not as restricted by the guidelines after all. What has been noteworthy is how we have seen the usual batting of the ball when it comes to responsibility. The Government has said it is up to the courts and at least one magistrate has said that if people think the sentences are too soft they should complain to the Government.

Has there ever been quite the phenomenon we have witnessed anywhere else in the world historically? The "widespread localism" is highly unusual. I feel that there are all sorts of psychological angles that could be considered. I have already mentioned how a part of it is self-defeating, a kind of attempt at control like bulimia. But also there are some interesting juxtapositions. They were on the outside of the shops which aren't theirs but which they use and then smashing them up in a show of strength based in weakness. I can't help but feel that they were displaying some signs there of the Government in relation to them. Everyone knows that the country is weak economically and how the Government's response is to act tough. The Government is seen as being on the outside and detached, it treats the rioters partially as theirs and partially as not theirs, and it is felt as damaging to them. One might argue that the shopkeepers have consequently been placed in the rioters' personal positions by the rioters' temporary governance.

Finally CCTV. For those who don't know Croydon, the Reeves Corner Furniture Shop was right at the edge of the centre, to the south west, in fact hardly a part of the centre at all. Elsewhere, London Road, where most of the other buildings in flames were located, and which is still cordoned off, is the extended part of the shopping centre going north towards London. This is the part with all of the small shops owned mainly by ethnic families. The true centre, with all of the multinationals, was not hit in anything like the same way and the reason must be the presence of CCTV. The place is absolutely covered with cameras.