Riots

[amateur51]

LAST NIGHT'S 'NEWSNIGHT'

* I wasn't sure if I was watching On The Hour or Not the Nine O'Clock News as some badly jafaican white 'rapper' testiculated in a most random and incoherent way watched in complete beusement by a real black person.

* Is it the case as I heard suggested last night that most of those arrested during the riots are released after being charged pending prosecution?

* Best moment of the prog. Michael Gove laying in to Harriet Harman for another 'you're going completely the wrong way around sorting out the utter mess we have made of things, though it suits me to persistently play the denial card' appearance.

That'll be the Michael Gove who's creating community cohesion by allowing lots of middle-class parents to set up free schools, is it?

[Anna]

LAST NIGHT'S 'NEWSNIGHT'

* I wasn't sure if I was watching On The Hour or Not the Nine O'Clock News as some badly jafaican white 'rapper' testiculated in a most random and incoherent way watched in complete beusement by a real black person.

I saw the last part of Newsnight - who was that rapping guy? The 'real' black man, when asked why he wasn't out there on the streets replied that he had a Mum and Dad who cared about him and would do anything to help him get on in life (words to that effect)

And, is not lack of parenting vital to a lot of this and the breakdown of traditional family values, family life (at the risk of sounding like a Conservative!)

[amateur51]

[ed] What is so disturbing is that we are seeing our own young people turning into some kind of alien creatures whose minds we cannot comprehend. We are trying to understand how this has happened. It is nothing to do with how charitable we should be or how we should be thankful for our good fortune.

This is quite a good start - sorry to those who may have watched this before

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/video/2011/jul/31/haringey-youth-club-closures-video

[amateur51]

I saw the last part of Newsnight - who was that rapping guy? The 'real' black man, when asked why he wasn't out there on the streets replied that he had a Mum and Dad who cared about him and would do anything to help him get on in life (words to that effect)

And, is not lack of parenting vital to a lot of this and the breakdown of traditional family values, family life (at the risk of sounding like a Conservative!)

As we don't know who these people are (those ones who've been rioting & looting, they have not yet come before the courts) it is a bit premature to be making broadbrush observations about parenting, isn't it? And doesn't parenting come in a broad spectrum of experiencesthese days, no 'one size fits all'? What a traditional family these days?

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

"Imagine you are 14 years old, and you live in a flat four storeys up. It's the summer holidays and you don't have any pocket money. That's your life. What will you get up to today? Go to a football game? No – you're talking £30 or £50. .... So what do you do? You hang around in the streets, and you are bored, bored, bored. And you look around you. Who isn't bored? Who isn't hanging around because they don't have any money? Who has the cars, the clothes, the power?"

...er David Cameron's hug a hoodie speech ... speaks volumes today eh ...

dramatic male display hasn't been mentioned yet .... what other cards do "hoodies" have to play in the mating game but extravagant high risk and competitive aggressive display [these days either sex]


the change in employment patterns ... educational requirements were not high in most factory, steel works, docks, ship yard and other manual labour jobs ... there aren't any now ... in the old days i recall that the working underclass was a bit rough too ...

obey the law? why? who does? bankers? politicians? police? celebrities? life is a lottery these days? you get nowhere in consumerism without helping yourself [ultimately there is only a marginal difference between shopping on plastic and looting - the obligation to pay is just another version of the full force of the law] the plod have destroyed respect for the law on the street [if it ever existed]

study? why? gradaute unemployment has never been worse, it costs a fortune and leaves you in debt ....

the looting is selective ... fashion, electronics, booze and fags ... not food or basics


images of upper class privilege are everywhere [the royal wedding anyone?] and the mobility of the parents and grandparents time has disappeared ...

asking why they happened at all is not the question for me ..why aren't they much worse? why are they not political? ..they are not opposition, they are shopping without cash or credit .... and showing off inside their world and putting two fingers up to the rest of us ....


...and they express anger, our anger, my anger and rage at this society and its power structures, inequality, incompetence, and ignorance .... i will not condemn or judge the kids for what they are doing, it seems to me that their actions are a lot less devastating to us all than the perfidies of financial crisis, corruption greed and incompetence that we endure at the hands of the gangsters who run the show ... nor will i praise them, i just feel shame that our society is this disordered .... there is no 'they' the kids are us, we are all in this ... or else face the reality that there is no 'we' .... and lose it all ....

[amateur51]

...er David Cameron's hug a hoodie speech ... speaks volumes today eh ...

dramatic male display hasn't been mentioned yet .... what other cards do "hoodies" have to play in the mating game but extravagant high risk and competitive aggressive display [these days either sex]


the change in employment patterns ... educational requirements were not high in most factory, steel works, docks, ship yard and other manual labour jobs ... there aren't any now ... in the old days i recall that the working underclass was a bit rough too ...

obey the law? why? who does? bankers? politicians? police? celebrities? life is a lottery these days? you get nowhere in consumerism without helping yourself [ultimately there is only a marginal difference between shopping on plastic and looting - the obligation to pay is just another version of the full force of the law] the plod have destroyed respect for the law on the street [if it ever existed]

study? why? gradaute unemployment has never been worse, it costs a fortune and leaves you in debt ....

the looting is selective ... fashion, electronics, booze and fags ... not food or basics


images of upper class privilege are everywhere [the royal wedding anyone?] and the mobility of the parents and grandparents time has disappeared ...

asking why they happened at all is not the question for me ..why aren't they much worse? why are they not political? ..they are not opposition, they are shopping without cash or credit .... and showing off inside their world and putting two fingers up to the rest of us ....


...and they express anger, our anger, my anger and rage at this society and its power structures, inequality, incompetence, and ignorance .... i will not condemn or judge the kids for what they are doing, it seems to me that their actions are a lot less devastating to us all than the perfidies of financial crisis, corruption greed and incompetence that we endure at the hands of the gangsters who run the show ... nor will i praise them, i just feel shame that our society is this disordered .... there is no 'they' the kids are us, we are all in this ... or else face the reality that there is no 'we' .... and lose it all ....

Stone me, Calum!

[johnb]

What I want to know is who do we send stuff to? For example, I've dug this one off Facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Putting-your-feet-up-after-a-hard-days-looting-in-Croydon/240749175964704?sk=wall

Incidentally, while my views are probably over-elaborate, they essentially boil down to this : "Except for the wealth divisions, which do matter, there is no real difference between the mentality behind these incidents and that of a bunch of Bullingdon lads smashing up restaurants and sniffing cocaine. That is precisely the problem with what is now a rotten-to-the-core Britain".

I think there is something in that, except the Bullingdon gang have even less excuse.

Incidentally, there is a wonderful description of the Bullingdon Club in Evelyn Waugh's 'Decline and Fall'. Even though the novel was first published in 1928 their behaviour is startlingly similar to what was reported to be going on during Cameron's/Johnson's/Osborne's years at Oxford.

[Mr Pee]

i will not condemn or judge the kids for what they are doing

Then you should be ashamed of yourself.

gangsters who run the show

The only gangsters out there are the likes Mark Duggan, whose shooting was the flimsy excuse on which these riots began.

the change in employment patterns ... educational requirements were not high in most factory, steel works, docks, ship yard and other manual labour jobs ... there aren't any now

McDonalds? Cleaning jobs? Call centres? The list goes on. There are plenty of jobs out there. And if these yobs want to get on in life, don't go rioting and end up with a criminal record. Get on a course or an apprenticeship, and improve your prospects. And maybe if they'd knuckled down at school, and been subject to a bit of discipline while they were there, they might not be in this state in the first place.

ultimately there is only a marginal difference between shopping on plastic and looting - the obligation to pay is just another version of the full force of the law

That's so ridiculous I can barely believe I've just read it. What planet are you living on?

gradaute (sic) unemployment has never been worse, it costs a fortune and leaves you in debt ....

Well that's a whole other debate. Somehow I don't think that Student Loans even feature on the rioter's radar. And that whole issue has been so badly misrepresented by the Student Unions and the Left that rational debate on the subject is almost impossible.

the looting is selective ... fashion, electronics, booze and fags

I.E.- Stuff they can sell on. It's theft, pure and simple.

the plod have destroyed respect for the law on the street

the "plod" as you disrespectfully call them, are the ones who were out in strength last night preventing a further night of carnage on the streets of London. Where were you? They still have my respect. They do an incredibly difficult job, and 99% of the time they do it extremely well. Unfortunately some segments of society have no repect for the law, and the police are the embodiment of that.

It's just this sort of mealy-mouthed apology for the rioters that makes me despair. Let's stop trying to make excuses. This was mass theft and vandalism, nothing more, nothing less. I believe the police should use water cannon, baton rounds, and CS gas. The perpetrators should then be hauled before emergency courts and given heavy sentences with no possibility of appeal.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

yep we can all have our own little riot eh mr pee ...

[Mr Pee]

Excellent statement just now by David Cameron. Pleased to hear that he has now authorised the use of water cannon and baton rounds.

And as for the video clip, Harriet Harman should also be ashamed of herself. It is sickening that a politician of her profile seems to be attempting to justify criminality, and using that criminality in an attempt to score cheap political points. She has only succeeded in making herself look even more ridiculous and out of touch with reality than she did before- something that I would previously have thought impossible.

[amateur51]

yep we can all have our own little riot eh mr pee ...

Oh aren't you just thrilled that you're not Michael Gove's child!

Nicely done, Harriet! Gove kebab-ed!

[amateur51]

Excellent statement just now by David Cameron. Pleased to hear that he has now authorised the use of water cannon and baton rounds.

How many days has this taken? As SHB has pointed out before, it'd have been standard practice if this was kicking off in Northern Ireland in the 70s. Bloody amateurs!

[Anna]

Is it possible just to have links or a reduction in size rather than embedding particularly when replying? My screen is small and these two are filling it.

As we don't know who these people are (those ones who've been rioting & looting, they have not yet come before the courts) it is a bit premature to be making broadbrush observations about parenting, isn't it? And doesn't parenting come in a broad spectrum of experiences these days, no 'one size fits all'? What a traditional family these days?

A traditional family is loving your children and nurturing them, knowing where they are at night, concern for their welfare, teaching them respect for themselves and others. The overwhelming majority of people who have grown up in the same environments do not riot or loot.. Why is this? Perhaps like the black guy on Newsnight they have caring parent(s) and a stable homelife. What do I know.

Interview on the Today programme with a looter from Manchester. “No. my parents didn’t know where he was, yes he’d probably get shouted at when he got home but they couldn’t do anything or ground him, yes he’d carry on looting even though he could afford to buy the goods because the Police are too thin on the ground and if caught he’d only get a Caution or at worst an ASBO, not a sentence as the prisons are overcrowded so he didn’t care. It’s just free stuff innit that I can sell”

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Whatever the arguments on both sides, ACDK, did you have to ruin my morning with the dreadful Michael Gove? The man who listens to no-one?

[old khayyam]

Thank you, FF. Pardon my paranoia