Riots

[Freddie Campbell]

...I can't believe what we are seeing in our Cities is really a spontaneous reaction by a "forgotten Underclass" of youngsters-
This has been orchestrated & perhaps planned for some time,IMV...

[BBMmk2]

This is my opinion.

I think particularly that this has been a well planned action by the non-gangs of london and it has just spilled over as a matter of spontaneous reactions by members of our society who seem to think that we got nothing to loose lets go o n the raampage. This, I should think is of the minrotiy opinion.

Also, I think it is the way our society is becoming to. The lack of discipline in a lot of our children of today has to be condoned as well. That stems from a gernation or so of people who gradually found that the goverment is reducing the parents right to chastise their child. Maybe this is so in some respects, because I know for a fact that the majority of people do bring up a good family.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I took part in the London protest against public sector cuts in June. What was noticeable was the large number of well-organised groups on the "extremist" fringe who were riding on the band-wagon. They were probably the ones who caused damage on that Saturday afternoon, and they are there still, waiting in the wings, exploiting whatever opportunities come along.

[scottycelt]

...I can't believe what we are seeing in our Cities is really a spontaneous reaction by a "forgotten Underclass" of youngsters-
This has been orchestrated & perhaps planned for some time,IMV...

Could well have been, Freddie ... the thugs and looters who ran amok in Oxford Street when Charlie and Camilla's car was attacked used the same tactics, and there was a quote at the time from one anarchist group saying that 'London will burn'.

[french frank]

Amongst all this blanket media coverage what I would like to see are some of the rioters interviewed (without fear of any reprisal) and hear what they truly think their reasons are about why they did what they did so that people can possibly start to comprehend.

I wouldn't like to say that this was at all representative. But it seems to apply to some. I can't think that the ignorance and stupidity is universal but even a little exacerbates the problem.

There is one suggestion that part of it is a mirror image of the amorality of the greedy bankers.

[Simon]

I had the weekend away and didn't actually know anything till this morning apart from someone saying in a moorland pub on Saturday night that there had been some trouble in London. To be honest none of us were bothered: London and the countryside up here might well be on two different planets.

But I'm bothered now, now that I've begun to grasp the picture.

I expect that there's the usual carp from the lefty nutters on here about how it's all the fault of society and how it must be the police that are to blame, but no doubt interspersed with that there will be some reality and rational comment.

Rather than wade through 14 pages, can someone point me to a sensible post or two, please? Thanks, S-S!

[John Wright]

Rather than wade through 14 pages, can someone point me to a sensible post or two, please? Thanks, S-S!

Well, not wanting you to waste your time, check out posts #23, #99

[Donnie Essen]

Gotta envy these kids a touch. Watching the news, eating a madeleine, ol' Donnie recalls a time when he was young, when yer perspective was still that the world was a place you were born into and it didn't belong to you, and you had yet to understand and feel that you would inherit it, to feel you had a stake in it and you needed to not damage it. I've no idea at what age that change took place for me, perhaps it was when I signed up for a mortgage. You lose something as well as gaining. You get old inside. You get scared and paranoid. Nowadays, my instinctive, natural reaction is to be up for some vigilante justice, going out there and beating some heads. The only folks defending the areas are recent immigrants, Turks in Dalston, and muslims by the east end mosque. Everyone else just stays at home and cries. But those kids doing the destruction'll have some cool memories when they're older, no matter what they think about it then.

I do believe most are doing it for kicks. I saw a reporter on the news who lived in Lavender Hill going around saying to kids 'is this fun' when they were smashing up stores unhindered? What a finger-wagging chump. Of course it was fun. I don't believe in a grand plot. If there is one, it's among small groups only and the rest likely don't know nothing about it. They do it simply because they've discovered that they can, and it's facilitated by social media. Problem is, now they know about it, they can do it at any time.

[vinteuil]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14463452

[Stillhomewardbound]

A big difference between the Thatcher riots and now ... within weeks of taking power she approved big pay rises for the police, the army and the judges. She got them on her side straight away.

By comparison, the coalition wants to reduce costs all round on that front. I've never seen disturbances in this country tackled so gingerly by the police and petty thieves so free to roam and nick and punch. Rather as when then failed to get a grip on the students demo, or at the attack on Chas & Dave, er, Camilla rather.

Don't get me wrong. I really am not knocking the police, but the problem is, there are too many mixed signals going all over the place.

[amateur51]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14463452

Interesting stuff vinteuil - many thanks

And the audio clip of Camila Batmanghelidjh of Kids Company is worth listening to too

[scottycelt]

Sky News are reporting that 50-70 vigilantes are on the streets in Canning Town to 'protect the people and property' from the rioters, because, they say, the police are 'doing nothing'. From the sound of it, it is very likely an extreme right-wing group involved.

That's all the poor law-abiding residents and police need ...

[Anna]

ShB mentioned the Police tackling gingerly. They can't win. If they take a zero tolerance approach they are accused of over-reacting, as occurred when they arrested UK Uncut protesters who had occupied Fortnum & Mason in March. And if they take a tactical decision to stand back, as they did to some extent at the weekend, they are castigated for being ineffectual. If they went in hard yesterday and cracked a few heads together they would have been accused of racism, something which I think they are terrified of hence the pussyfooting.

[Stillhomewardbound]

And your assignment for tonight:

Compare and contrast ... this week's riots with the LA/Rodney King Riots.

Won't take you long, so you'll still make it down to the barricades on time.

Oh and back to that question of mine ... what is it about this screwy liberal country that considers a dowsing with a water canon such an oppressive action.

Something has to be done with a pickaxe wielding/brick hurling/molotov cocktail throwing hoodlum (delete as appropriate) and I'd be happer training a powerful water jet on the miscreant than cracking his skull with a baton or blinding him with a rubber bullet. The imperative is to stop them without necessarily maiming them.

Oh god we can be so soft!

[Simon]

Well, not wanting you to waste your time, check out posts #23, #99

...which I just did. Thank you very much, John W. Are you sure your W stands for Wright, and not a more appropriate 2 syllable word?