Riots

[teamsaint]

We have a society where the people at the top tell us that the only important values are greed and ambition. Where people do not feel that most ordinary jobs are worth doing, either for how they are respected, or for what they pay. Where the gap between the (conspicuous) rich and the rest gets wider daily.where the media present us with little but endless vacuous aspirational nonsense.Where our education sysyem panders to the top 10 % and where 20% fail utterly to get the training to do the rubbish jobs that are despised anyway.where ordinary people work such long hours that having the time and energy left to instill decent values into their kids is way down the list. Where the markets and the central banks dictate how our lives are. (Tail wagging dog).

We live in a society where the government expects us to eat, house ourselves, educate our kids, provide pensions etc etc out of salaries that are an insult.

the only surprise is that more people didnt riot earlier. the government should be on warning that one day, and it may be soon, it won't just be "feral kids " on the streets.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

what and cause a truancy crisis!

We live in a society where the government expects us to eat, house ourselves, educate our kids, provide pensions etc etc out of salaries that are an insult.

..that poor lady who worked in a shop in Birmingham, she and her colleague had their handbags stolen, were threatend with and suffered violence, called the police several times and were told help was on its way ... none came ...and as she said all this for £5-95p an hour ...

[eighthobstruction]

indeed....

[Anna]

Ams, that is very interesting and I'd like to say more about youth workers but unfortunately the link is broken. Can you try and repost it please?

David Lammy has now called on Blackberry to suspend it's messaging service.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

David Lammy has now called on Blackberry to suspend it's messaging service.

why? one would hope by now that the plod are reading all the messages ...

[Lateralthinking1]

.. if the authority of the police continues to fail we may see some tough vigilante action

If one or two in ten ordinary adults decided to spend tonight outside, it would surely make a big difference. As it is, the curfew is on us....the police advice is that it would interfere with their actions.

What is being proposed for tonight is far too soft. The government is more interested in not losing face and possibly not losing the Olympics. Both are possibilities should stronger tactics be employed.

We are not being told what the maximum sentence will be. It will obviously be pathetic.

The new ruling that people can use appropriate force to protect their property from everyday thieves - I would have thought that in the case of a house being set alight, people need some clarification this afternoon.

We are not being given the contact details about to whom any reports should be sent.

This national response is rubbish. I have no more confidence in this political and policing system than do the looters and the arsonists. In an ideal world, I would though like to see governance exercised somehow, perhaps anyhow, even if it isn't done adequately by the government. This would be in the interests of all.

Part of me thinks that something is being achieved politically from parts of communities turning against other parts. It takes the focus of opposition away from Government slightly and indeed the foreign wars.

[Serial_Apologist]

If one or two in ten ordinary adults decided to spend tonight outside, it would surely make a big difference. As it is, the curfew is on us....the police advice is that it would interfere with their actions.

What is being proposed for tonight is far too soft. The government is more interested in not losing face and possibly not losing the Olympics. Both are possibilities should stronger tactics be employed.

We are not being told what the maximum sentence will be. It will obviously be pathetic.

The new ruling that people can use appropriate force to protect their property from everyday thieves - I would have thought that in the case of a house being set alight, people need some clarification on this point this afternoon.

We are not being given the contact details on to whom any reports should be sent.

This national response is rubbish. I have no more confidence in this political and policing system than do the looters and the arsonists. In an ideal world, I would though like to see governance exercised even if it isn't done adequately by the government in the interests of all.

I now see ordinary people turning up to clear the mess that now is Croydon. Post factum (supply appropriate Latin euphemism) est.

[Mahlerei]

why? one would hope by now that the plod are reading all the messages ...

Precisely. I've just heard a senior policeman admit they rely heavily on 'intelligence' and I'm sure that includes messaging services. Besides, switching these things off is the preserve of dictators.

[teamsaint]

Precisely. I've just heard a senior policeman admit they rely heavily on 'intelligence' and I'm sure that includes messaging services. Besides, switching these things off is the preserve of dictators.

if only it was the preserve of dictators.
Turn ordinary people against each other, and use the chaos to bring in yet more controls. All nicely takes away attention from the greed and complacency of our elites.

[amateur51]

Ams, that is very interesting and I'd like to say more about youth workers but unfortunately the link is broken. Can you try and repost it please?

David Lammy has now called on Blackberry to suspend it's messaging service.

Took a while to find the new address, sorry Anna:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/video/2011/jul/31/haringey-youth-club-closures-video

I'll try to amend the original post too

[Lateralthinking1]

I agree - a very interesting and informative post from Amateur. 31 July. Just goes to show.

There is a role for people who feel that the problems are linked in some ways to Government policy. There are, in fact, two hurdles. One is that the Government is bloody minded. The second is that it cannot be seen to change course in direct response to the criminality. To avoid the second being used as an excuse, Middle Britain, for want of a better phrase, needs to write in due course to say that it thinks policy matters.

Also, the middle aged and elderly West Indian population and those from other ethnic communities, are clearly extremely upset (World at One, Radio 4). There will be a need for these age groups of all backgrounds, including white, to seek to do as much as possible to build bridges.

I would like to know more about the relationship between the 30 somethings and below who are causing problems and the older generations of their families. If it turns out that they are chips off the old block, whether white or black, we may need to look at new ways of dealing with the families as a whole.

I have to admit that I am wrestling inwardly here to keep my core beliefs. At times, I have felt so enraged by both the toffs and the dregs that I've been feeling very right wingish indeed in a most unfamiliar and disturbing way. God knows what many who don't have such understanding values are thinking.

(I can see what is happening. If I perceive that the Government won't shift, I will feel more oppositional towards the rioting groups. While that may sound like a win-win for Cameron, the middle ground which most of us are in just cannot be left to feel that it is being attacked from all sides. That feeling would, if replicated across the country, be a disaster for race relations).

[pmartel]

Hi, if I can chime in here from a Canadian persective.

I hope things get settled soon as I just don't like what I see happening.

Have been reading various articles in our local paper here and on the board it is greatly discerning.

Last year we had the G20 in Toronto and was totally ugly, while a totally different cenario, something we are not used to here.

Just to let you know my thoughts are with you and hope things improve soon

[Mahlerei]

This video was taken at the Nugent estate, just a few minutes from here:

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/bromley/9185335.VIDEO__Looting_in_Orpington/

[Serial_Apologist]

I have to admit that I am wrestling inwardly here to keep my core beliefs. At times, I have felt so enraged by both the toffs and the dregs that I've been feeling very right wingish indeed in a most unfamiliar and disturbing way. God knows what many who don't have such understanding values are thinking.

It's the old problem of the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" syndrome, and you (and I) are probably not as alone as you think, Lat. One of the reasons (apart from illness in the family) for my getting out of active left-wing politics in the mid-'80s was the near-uncritical support our lot gave the Fedayeen and Mujahedeen in Iran during the fall of the Shah. Later one found substantiation of one's skepticism in the way "identity politics" took over the women's movement and led to the demise of Spare Rib. Made redundant in 1992 after being shifted deparftmentwise a year earlier, losing my staff rep status and without support from workmates (some of whom wept a year later when I revisited) I started figuring I'd been wrong all along, got on me bike in Tebbitt-approved manner, and knuckled down to retraining, while keeping a sort of Marxist cultural downtake. After Barings I regretted not sticking to my "guns" and now find myself going back to the fundamentals as far as my own... bearings go. There's nothing "progressive" about rioting, per se, for all the "obvious" reasons you've so well spelt out; it's not a question of "siding" with forces of law and order, but of seeing rioting circumvents the possibility of law and order or any kind.

S-A

[Serial_Apologist]

This video was taken just at the Nugent estate, just a few minutes from here:

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/br..._in_Orpington/

Just as well I helped clear his Orpington shop of its contents when he shut down 3 weeks ago eh? Most of them are now stored in my garage.