Originally posted by Chris Newman
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except of course that declaration left out a significant part of the people - the black slaves of whom for exmaple George Washington had many - something is however badly amiss with the black subculture in parts of the UK - young black males leave school with significantly poorer qualifications than other ethnic minorities (tho I think Bangladeshi males are close) - when I taught at Univ Chinese and especially the Vietnamese children of immigrants grossly exceeded their respective % of population at the top of most classes (and many had come to UK with no English) - they had a frightning work culture and desire to achieve. -
It's basically netiquette: if you want to put someone on your Ignore list, just do it. No need to announce it, no need for an insult.Originally posted by johnb View Post
Back to the riots: I think the theorising about causes has a tendency to stop at a convenient point to fit the prejudices. I find it difficult to believe that the mass of those involved have seen their lives significantly changed for the worse already as a result of recent policies; some may have done, some not, others have been in desperate circumstances for far too long. The shooting in Tottenham seems to have been the trigger, just as the raid on the Black and White Cafe in Bristol started the St Paul's riot.
These feelings of resentment have been smouldering for a long time. They weren't magically dispersed when Labour came into power and introduced all sorts of enlightened legislation to improve people's lives. The explosions of genuine anger spark opportunistic criminality which spreads to people who have considerably less to complain about. That said, I hope the scale of the events does cause the politicians to reconsider whether so much can be achieved in so short a space of time without having an unacceptable effect on people's lives.It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
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What I want to know is who do we send stuff to? For example, I've dug this one off Facebook:
Incidentally, while my views are probably over-elaborate, they essentially boil down to this : "Except for the wealth divisions, which do matter, there is no real difference between the mentality behind these incidents and that of a bunch of Bullingdon lads smashing up restaurants and sniffing cocaine. That is precisely the problem with what is now a rotten-to-the-core Britain".Comment
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There would be nothing wrong with the work ethic - protestant or other - if the producer were not alienated from the products of his or her labour. As it is, he or she works him or herself out of a job more quickly than the hard worker. And we all - hard working or indolent - have to be incentivised by being made promises of sorts other than the potential fulfilment of working to meet wider needs in society and the world at large.Originally posted by Frances_iom View Post
It would be helpful if some of these basic principles of how the system operates were re-learned. The at least we'd know how we are being shaped, shaped up and shopped, and stop resorting to escapisms of one kind or another.
S-AComment
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What a Twisted mess Babylon is.
A visceral mind, tweeked by communication technology.
Boredom,alienation,confidence, dis-inhibition meet on a street corner,
And become Criminality.
Put them all in boxes ?
They consider themselves boxed already.
They speak a patois of the box already.
There is a feral misunderstanding of what is gratitude.
Gratitude for a box; amongst boxes ?
Gratitude for THIS....?
Gratitude for a box ?
When all popular culture says 'lead the good life',
The fast life, the clean airy life.
Gratitude for this suppression....??
Emasculation....Deprivation....
Pwhssh....bong chingComment
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There are so many strands to what has happened but, referring to my msg 4, this is the society that we and bearing in mind the age of the youths, Labour's Caring Sharing society have created, possibly even the Benefit Culture is to blame and this now is the 'underclass' a section of that group who happen to be, in this current outbreak of lawlessness, black, saying they don't give a tinker's cuss about anything. As frances says, something is very badly amiss with a section of black subculture in parts of the UK.
How, we ask, could they attack their own community with such disregard? But the young people would reply "easily", because they feel they don't actually belong to the community. Community, they would say, has nothing to offer them. Instead, for years they have experienced themselves cut adrift from civil society's legitimate structures. Society relies on collaborative behaviour; individuals are held accountable because belonging brings personal benefit. Fear or shame of being alienated keeps most of us pro-social. Lack of education, lack of aspiration, lack of employment prospects, lack of parenting, lack of respect, why indeed should they care?
The fact that they have destroyed peoples homes and possessions, small businesses that may never recover (how can they if the premises have been torched), arson with no regard for the fact that people could have been killed, how can this be addressed, how can they be given some hope that they can in fact be welcomed into society and play a part in society?
Edit: Just seen frenchie's. Yes, this has nothing to do with the cuts nor Mark Duggan, this has been simmering for years.Comment
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Please don't read any accusation of racism into what I write when I say it is no accident - they do not "happen" to be black - the fact is that it was "useful" (euphemism) to bring their parents' and grandparents' generations here to reconstruct the country post WW2; just as it was "useful" not to recognise their underclass status when the postwar indigenous working class brought up on Britain's civilizing mission through colonialism started being shipped out to the 'burbs and new towns while Rachmanism took over the inner-cities. Sure, the liberal BBC in its well-meaning way presented Edmundo Ros as a model of welcoming gentle insistence, but when the slide to decline accelerated it was not difficult for Thatcher to speak of immigrants "swamping" the country.Originally posted by Anna View PostComment
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Yep, simmering for years....that's what the back-burner is for....
Snakes in the grass....that's what the long-grass is for....
Lack of shame and aspiration....EEy maan you DISREPeKtin' ME....
I got aspiration, but I do not see my chance in this Nation....
[yep, mostly agree Anna....]bong chingComment
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Grand Theft Auto game : Liberty City - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUAeh...eature=related
Inventor - Dave Jones, British
Sales - 10 million
Total Grand Theft Auto sales - 124 millionComment
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Riots this time, as in the 80s, do seem to erupt a year or two into the life of a new government where that government has introduced austerity measures, or attempted to introduce unpopular measures like the poll tax. I think the difference in this set of rioting is that it is occurring against a much worse economic background. This article by Mary Riddell in the Telegraph makes some good points imo.These feelings of resentment have been smouldering for a long time. They weren't magically dispersed when Labour came into power and introduced all sorts of enlightened legislation to improve people's lives. The explosions of genuine anger spark opportunistic criminality which spreads to people who have considerably less to complain about. That said, I hope the scale of the events does cause the politicians to reconsider whether so much can be achieved in so short a space of time without having an unacceptable effect on people's lives.
It is easy to condemn this highly visible violence and looting, although it is likely that it will fizzle out in a week or so and the damage caused will in relation to the overall economy be relatively small. Yet the much less visible larceny conducted by the financial world during most of the last decade, and which has left many governments (and therefore us as taxpayers) having to pay for it, will cause huge social and economic damage for many years. Yet although many of the rioters will be caught and go to prison, no bank executive has been charged, few have even lost their jobs (or if they have, have had massive pension payouts), and the political class has been very gentle in its condemnation of the bankers. That criminality which immiserates nations and conducts its looting on a global scale as opposed to smashing windows and taking trainers or laptops is largely tolerated. It really is one law for the underclass and one law for the rich.Comment
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No, No, S-A, don't take me wrong! There is an 'underclass' (horrible word) in the UK, cf some of the sink estates (another horrible word) but they are both black and white. I meant that the current lootings happened to be the, mainly, black section of that class. God forbid anyone should think I'm a racistComment
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Selfishness bred of disconnection is the only rational explanation for those who have no regard for the livelihoods/possessions of others. Our consumer society has bred a sense of entitlement - advertisers say our lives are incomplete, our status diminished, without the latest phone, TV or trainers - so if they can't be had by legal means why not steal them? Factor in a vacuum of fear and uncertainty - economics - and animosity - politics - and all the ingredients for social unrest are present.
Watching the dapper, tanned PM in his smart suit outside Downing Street just reinforces that sense of a serious social disjunct, of two worlds separated by a vast chasm of confusion and mistrust. We are where we are by virtue of uncontrollable events - economics - and decades of failed leadership - politics. Water cannon, rubber bullets and the Army cannot begin to address these deeper issues and will only widen the divide.Comment
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aeolium
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No, NO lets have these true words out....underclass....sink-estates....
Yes Aeolium....unlike the 'morgage package' Bankers and Speculators....these underclass cannot insure against their failure [with the cold calculating mendacity of the bankers]....and show a pretty profit....
{I'm sure nobody would even begin to think that Anna]bong chingComment
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