Riots

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  • Lateralthinking1

    Let me tell you a story. When I was seven, I went through a very tough time. Absolutely life changing. But this occurred in a broader context that was almost wholly for the good - a stable home life; dependable, if perhaps overly modest, parents who had left school at 14; a higher intelligence than most at my primary school; and popularity until 11 when in a new place things went rapidly downhill - between 7 and 11, voted by the other kids as the class captain or vice captain three years out of four.

    Both my schools were 99.8% white. They were very different from each other. While there were some signs from 7 to 11 of developing problems based on what had happened, I was seen by others as "the achiever" and "happier than most". People used to congratulate my parents particularly on my sociability - "how has he turned out to be so unlike an only child?" and "would it be alright if my son spent the afternoon with you all - I feel that he is happier in your home and that Lateral is a good influence". Within a year of moving on to a new school, I was running away, in almost permanent fear, last out of 120 in exams for two years running, deeply unpopular, and placed on tranquilizers. Why? What had happened to me at 7 was now making a difference in a way that it hadn't before. I had also left my mates who went to the local school. The new culture was wealthy, priggish, supercilious and high achieving. While I could thrive in an ordinary place where I was a leader, I collapsed where I became the opposite.

    Some would identify with parts of this account. Part of my shock was in finding that others had more confidence with their ability, wholly based on their achieving parents. Part of it was in finding out what this group was like. Because they spoke well, and were nicely turned out, no adult was able to receive the messages that actually many weren't pleasant and many were bigger troublemakers than anyone at the local place. Such was its reputation that accounts would simply be misbelieved. I kept things quiet - the day of the knife fight, the lunchtimes when teachers would be locked in their classrooms, the f you attitudes towards them - that "our fathers and we know best", and most of all the sheer hatred. Those were the Blairs, the Cleggs and particularly the Camerons in the making. 36 years on, the country has come to see what they are really like.

    People who oppose them are in the main older than 12. They are less isolated, in touch daily with their own groups, so they are more inclined to express. Many started with problems too and some do not have an average IQ. They still turn to "medication" and don't even have a sense of token inclusion. Unlike me, there is not a feeling that if only they can sit this out for six or seven years, they might survive and even benefit from the experience. Was there anyone other than my parents and average, decent, friends, who helped me to achieve so much against the odds until the age of 11? Yes. There was a special teacher. One of the best people I have met in my life and extraordinarily kind. A middle aged woman who, as it happened, was a black Jamaican. The very first black person I knew and someone of remarkable integrity. Just as later, my senior school experience would leave me with a decades-long chip on my shoulder against elites, she alone shaped my views on ethnicity until this week.

    What I feel is that she must have related to me more closely than the relationship between some of these people on the streets and their own mothers, let alone their fathers. While I am white, I almost feel that I benefited from a strong black upbringing more than they did. I don't see the Jamaican in them in the way that I feel there is a strand there in myself. I wouldn't want to be a teacher these days. I can't even begin to imagine it. But we speak about the influence of politics and the media and the economy and celebrity which all do so much damage, particularly where there are instabilities in the home. All early influence lasts for tens of years. No one seems to mention that these people spend or spent huge chunks of their lives - perhaps the biggest - in schools.
    Last edited by Guest; 11-08-11, 00:57.

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    • Lateralthinking1

      19 year old Laura Johnson - family home Sheepcote Farmhouse, Sheepcote Lane, Orpington, Kent, BR5 4ET - has just been convicted of looting the Charlton Curry’s superstore of electrical goods worth £5,000. Telephone number to the family business there, Avongate Ltd - 01689 890 600. The detached converted farmhouse is in extensive grounds with a tennis court. She is an English and Italian undergraduate at Exeter. Before that, she attended St Olave’s Grammar, the fourth-best state school in the country, and its sister school, Newstead Wood, gaining nine GCSE A grades and four A*s.

      Early reports from Highbury court showed that the majority yesterday were white and from the underclass. An eleven year old black youth prompted the judge to declare that he was too young to get a tag and he couldn't do anything either about 12 year olds. That obviously includes rehabilitation programmes away from the family. The man is a wimp and he shows with his words that the Prime Minister - age will be no barrier - to be a lightweight, habitual liar.

      ......I can't believe how little Parliament is doing. This picture is of a poser between two genuine people. It is pathetic.



      Where are the statements on special, highly symbolic, forms of punishment to appropriately address this situation? Where are the calls for a review on how what has happened fits in with policy breakdown - the Skinners and the Corbyns of this world? Where is Ken Clarke - the Justice Secretary? Where are the journalists asking why Boris Johnson walked off and remarking on that symbolic uselessness? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpqJGutYNcs. Why is the BBC referring to the police beginning to win "the battle", giving credibility to the arson? Why does Cobra meet at 9am and not 6am? What is being done to assist police officers personally who are having to work flat out day after day while Government reclines?

      Where are the statements of apology from Stephenson and indeed Murdoch for leaving others in the police force to have to manage this situation? Where is Jeremy Hunt with comments on how the media and electronica may have had an influence and promised reviews into that? Where is the undertaking on psychological and sociological profiling? We need to know among the group that has been convicted class background, gender, ethnic background, work and school attendance, income, location of home, family organisation, media habits, addiction patterns. And why so few arrested and a tiny amount charged?
      Last edited by Guest; 11-08-11, 03:57.

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      • Donnie Essen



        Like, why does it only have to be these folk out o' the host nation to go about defending it? The minority communities, they defended their people and properties well and decently. But these people, drinking while doing it, causing trouble? I'd rather take my chances in a lawless state than be 'defended' by these people.

        Comment

        • scottycelt

          Originally posted by french frank View Post
          As I read it, S-A was simply speculating on the possibility of a connection, not that it was 'the principal source'.
          Yes, he had absolutely no 'agenda' whatsoever ...

          Has S-A ever 'simply speculated' on the possibility of a connection with today's dominant secular liberalism which, in its utter bewilderment, is now frantically thrashing around looking for favourite old scapegoats to blame .. ?

          The modern 'blame culture' is also part of the problem, imv.

          Comment

          • Ariosto

            Do people realise that this could spell the end of high street retailing?

            Companies are going to say that it is cheaper and SAFER to only have an Internet presence.

            Perhaps we won't find any phone shops or electrical outlets on the high streets after the end of this year. Nothing will be the same again.

            Comment

            • MickyD
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 4857

              Originally posted by eighthobstruction View Post
              ....could be, that you fail to see many jokes....????>
              On the contrary, it's just that this whole scenario has saddened me so much that I find it hard to laugh about any aspect of it.

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              • Lateralthinking1

                Mercia - re your parliamentary predictions, spot on. Avongate? Possibly. What I can confirm is that "Daddy" Johnson, father to the delightful Laura referred to in post 283, earlier had a financial interest in the Sunday Sport.

                ....I took a trip round the dial to less than familiar territory yesterday. BBC Radio 1. I wanted to find out how the gruesome "lad culture oaf" Moyles was coping. Had he and the station's "style" been compromised by "events"? As it turned out, Moylesie was on holiday so I settled instead for one of the ladettes.

                Her programme began uneasily. Walking to the studio had been a little "scary" for her. But she quickly settled into a diet of getting callers on the line to shriek hysterically about a boy band. They sounded like they were on something and having a riot. Let's forget about what's happening, the DJ suggested. We're going for escapism and fun.

                Second record in? "Sex on Fire" by the Kings of Leon. Not bad but an interesting choice. Read it as you wish. Sort of straddles the lines while having the all-important "fire" word in it. Edgy!

                The third? Tinie Tempah. The video to his most famous hit "Written in the Stars" features a young boy whose life is shaped by the fact he and his mother are subjected to a financially insecure life. He is regularly bullied by his peers and "is consumed with his book". That would be the Beeb getting in a bit of moral balance, I guess!
                Last edited by Guest; 11-08-11, 07:07.

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                • french frank
                  Administrator/Moderator
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 30577

                  This thread may be coming to the end of its natural life.

                  If/when I decide to close it, I can point members in the direction of another forum (no connection with Radio 3 or any related subjects) where people have been discussing the same subject. The attention of those members has been drawn to this thread, and they have been weighing up what is being said here with a semi-thought of joining this forum and pitching in. I would suggest people go over there instead.


                  The Radio 3 Forum has become, for its size, quite a high-profile forum. Whereas Platform 3 is indeed for general topics, perhaps people should reflect on why they joined this forum in the first place and make more contributions to those relevant topics and fewer to the open house that is Platform 3.
                  It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                  Comment

                  • Byas'd Opinion

                    Here's an interesting eyewitness account from someone who had to walk home past/through one of Monday night's London riots: http://motowns.blogspot.com/2011/08/im-no-writer.html

                    He's equally scathing about the looters, the police (esp. the Met's current leadership) and the politicians. And in view of some of the things which have been said above, I'd better point out his observation that

                    Walworth is a very diverse area and white and blacks were mixing together whether that was in watching or in looting.

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                    • eighthobstruction
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 6454

                      #293 ????....Eh ????
                      bong ching

                      Comment

                      • french frank
                        Administrator/Moderator
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 30577

                        I shall keep posting this until people acknowledge what I'm saying:

                        "This thread may be coming to the end of its natural life.

                        If/when I decide to close it, I can point members in the direction of another forum (no connection with Radio 3 or any related subjects) where people have been discussing the same subject. The attention of those members has been drawn to this thread, and they have been weighing up what is being said here with a semi-thought of joining this forum and pitching in. I would suggest people go over there instead.


                        The Radio 3 Forum has become, for its size, quite a high-profile forum. Whereas Platform 3 is indeed for general topics, perhaps people should reflect on why they joined this forum in the first place and make more contributions to those relevant topics and fewer to the open house that is Platform 3. "
                        It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                        Comment

                        • eighthobstruction
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 6454

                          #296....ff....Why don't you publish a little more information and a link. Then people might make their own decisions, rather than having a decision thrust on them....I did not ever realise that there was a quota for any particular branch of opinion ....
                          bong ching

                          Comment

                          • Lateralthinking1

                            This wouldn't have anything whatsoever to do with naming and shaming? It reminds me of the Nigel Kennedy comment about Louise Mensch. People shouldn't "mess" with her. I really hope we will all not run scared of bullying and immoral lawbreakers. They smash things to pieces without a care in the world for others' feelings. The country should know who they are.

                            Comment

                            • french frank
                              Administrator/Moderator
                              • Feb 2007
                              • 30577

                              Originally posted by eighthobstruction View Post
                              #296....ff....Why don't you publish a little more information nd a link. Then people might make their own decisions, rather than having a decision thrust on them....I did not ever realise that there was a quota for any particular branch of opinion ....
                              That's not the point.

                              I don't want this forum being invaded by outsiders who have spotted a controversial topic being discussed and want to join in for a fight. I noted a number of 'referrals' from a couple of days ago which came from a link on another website.
                              It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                              Comment

                              • doversoul1
                                Ex Member
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 7132

                                Originally posted by french frank View Post
                                I shall keep posting this until people acknowledge what I'm saying:

                                "This thread may be coming to the end of its natural life.

                                If/when I decide to close it, I can point members in the direction of another forum (no connection with Radio 3 or any related subjects) where people have been discussing the same subject. The attention of those members has been drawn to this thread, and they have been weighing up what is being said here with a semi-thought of joining this forum and pitching in. I would suggest people go over there instead.


                                The Radio 3 Forum has become, for its size, quite a high-profile forum. Whereas Platform 3 is indeed for general topics, perhaps people should reflect on why they joined this forum in the first place and make more contributions to those relevant topics and fewer to the open house that is Platform 3. "
                                I acknowledge what you say and wholly agree with you.

                                [ed] and this
                                ff
                                I don't want this forum being invaded by outsiders who have spotted a controversial topic being discussed and want to join in for a fight.
                                mercia
                                the stormy weather thread will be closed down for the same reason
                                Stormy weather is never going to attracts people in the same way as this thread could do. It’s too irrelevant in a best of sense.

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