Don't forget the dinosaurs!

[Nick Armstrong]

I sometimes feel that between the early/mid 2000s and maybe about five years ago, the various platforms were in such a state of flux that it seemed impossible to keep up (assuming one could afford to), and the line of least resistance was to stick to CDs. I explored minidiscs and recorders but they quickly became obsolete. Now, I realise that I have missed out on a whole world of 'new' hi-fi (is that a thing any more?) components and devices and although I often listen via my laptop to Sounds, YouTube, Naxos Music Library and (very occasionally) Spotify, I only do so over headphones, as the complexity (anticipated) of connecting to a fairly elderly amplifier and speakers fills me with dread. I have just spent a frustrating hour connecting the laptop.....

This resonates with me... also experimenting with wired speakers attached to computer (never satisfactory)... It was frustrating that non-CD music couldn’t be heard via my carefully chosen ‘hi fi’ amp & speakers..

The turning-point for me came with resolving the complexity you mention, probably nearer 10 years ago than 5... Being an Apple user, their relatively cheap little item called ‘Airport Express’ solved the problem. Discreet and plugged into the amp, it received music wirelessly from whatever Apple kit I was using, and delivered sound through the ‘hi fi’ that was quite the equal of using the CD player.

That changed everything for me. Using Qobuz & BBC Sounds suits my listening habits infinitely more these days than buying physical items.

The wall of CDs remains, but largely unplayed (or added to) for the last decade.

Of course one is at the mercy of the technology companies. Notably, Apple stopped making the Airport Express a few years back ... Happily mine continues to work (and thanks to another contributor to this thread I have a new spare). I use it exclusively with iOS equipment nowadays and I’m a little fearful that some update is going to end the compatibility with the Airport Express at a stroke. If that happens, there’ll need to be an annoying re-think.

For now though the simplicity and quality of the set-up suits me fine. Plus it’s satisfying that my beloved speakers, bought back in 1990, are in harness with 2020s technology hardly dreamt of when they were made.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Just tried Naxos on the iPad - still gaps on playback.

I'll see if I have a suitable cable somewhere. I read on here of all sorts of elaborate devices that people are using and feel distinctly underprepared for 21st century listening - I googled DAC a while back and am still not sure whether one would be any use to me.

I don’t know whether Naxos have an app rather than a webpage but if they do the app may well provide gapless playback. I sometimes run an opera from an iPad (streaming Qubuz) then connect a small Apple dac which is essentially a lighting connecter to mini jack socket . I can then plug my extension lead into that. It’s weird because streaming from the Met opera on both app and website (through Firefox as the website doesn’t work on Safari ) is gapless..

[gradus]

This resonates with me... also experimenting with wired speakers attached to computer (never satisfactory)... It was frustrating that non-CD music couldn’t be heard via my carefully chosen ‘hi fi’ amp & speakers..

The turning-point for me came with resolving the complexity you mention, probably nearer 10 years ago than 5... Being an Apple user, their relatively cheap little item called ‘Airport Express’ solved the problem. Discreet and plugged into the amp, it received music wirelessly from whatever Apple kit I was using, and delivered sound through the ‘hi fi’ that was quite the equal of using the CD player.

That changed everything for me. Using Qobuz & BBC Sounds suits my listening habits infinitely more these days than buying physical items.

The wall of CDs remains, but largely unplayed (or added to) for the last decade.

Of course one is at the mercy of the technology companies. Notably, Apple stopped making the Airport Express a few years back ... Happily mine continues to work (and thanks to another contributor to this thread I have a new spare). I use it exclusively with iOS equipment nowadays and I’m a little fearful that some update is going to end the compatibility with the Airport Express at a stroke. If that happens, there’ll need to be an annoying re-think.

For now though the simplicity and quality of the set-up suits me fine. Plus it’s satisfying that my beloved speakers, bought back in 1990, are in harness with 2020s technology hardly dreamt of when they were made.

I use Chromecast Audio with both my elderly Quad and Sony systems and it delivers good sounding Spotify and R3. I briefly tried Qobuz but couldn't tell any difference with Spotify 320 on the Quads so didn't keep it.

[Bryn]

I use Chromecast Audio with both my elderly Quad and Sony systems and it delivers good sounding Spotify and R3. I briefly tried Qobuz but couldn't tell any difference with Spotify 320 on the Quads so didn't keep it.

In most double-blind listening tests I have read of, the results chime with your experience. That's not to say particularly acute ears cannot detect the difference.

[jayne lee wilson]

Just tried Naxos on the iPad - still gaps on playback.

I'll see if I have a suitable cable somewhere. I read on here of all sorts of elaborate devices that people are using and feel distinctly underprepared for 21st century listening - I googled DAC a while back and am still not sure whether one would be any use to me.

The main benefit of a separate DAC is the sound quality upgrade - anyone who has connected their computer directly to the amp and can't hear, say, the differences between 320kb (aac or mp3) lossless (i.e. CD SQ) and 24-bit, may be pleasantly surprised if they move all the processing work into a dedicated DAC (via USB, Optical etc)...many available at all price levels, try Audioquest or Cambridge for a starter...(***)

Do note: Qobuz etc DON'T offer lossy codecs like 320 aac/mp3 anymore (these advanced lossy codecs are very rare now, even in digital radio); they stick to lossless or 24-bit; the benefits (to resolution, clarity, naturalness, critical distinctions between recordings, and - musical enjoyment!) are audible and palpable, but dependent on the ability of ears, rooms and systems to reveal them or perceive them. Unmodified computers themselves aren't great at such SQ (sound quality) distinctions; they are not designed to be.

As I've often said, here I've run Audirvana+/Qobuz for streaming since 2016 (lossless then, now hi-res or lossless, 100% stable and excellent-sounding, great search, most booklets instantly available), but still play CDs and SACDs, delving into those godknowshowmany 1000s of physical discs, and still buying new ones if the affections dictate and tightened budget allows....

(***) Various wireless systems include the DAC in the receiver and do much of the work for you (i.e. in the active speaker, e.g. the KEF LS ranges - though these are a bit pricy..); quality very variable as ever, price/design dependent)

[Dave2002]

It occurred to me, reading this, that the production and marketing of classical music CDs may be sustained by the needs of the pop and rock markets for CDs for the reasons given by TS: this would help sustain production facilities, marketing streams and so forth.

That's an interesing view. I don't know much about the pop and rock markets, but if physical objects are needed to go along with performances I can imagine some sort of "luxury" gift pack - including a T-shirt, poster, CD or DVD plus a piece of cardboard with a download code, and maybe a voucher for an LP too. Selling price - say £60 or £80 with the LP voucher. The performers would expect some punters to buy these items, and then really not care whether they were passed on or the CDs or DVDs put in the trash, or sold on eBay. Of course some of the items could be marked "Not for resale" - which would perhaps increase their value.

An alternative product - copies of performances on USB or similar memory sticks - would perhaps not work too well, as many would want instant gratification, so might not have the technology to hand to achieve that at the point of sale. Perhaps if USB style memory sticks could be made into devices with inbuilt Bluetooth and offer the potential for instant connection to a mobile phone or loudspeaker, there would be a bigger market.

Not sure if that would catch on or sell.

How such ideas/developments would benefit the classical music markets I can't say.

[cloughie]

The main benefit of a separate DAC is the sound quality upgrade - anyone who has connected their computer directly to the amp and can't hear, say, the differences between 320kb (aac or mp3) lossless (i.e. CD SQ) and 24-bit, may be pleasantly surprised if they move all the processing work into a dedicated DAC (via USB, Optical etc)...many available at all price levels, try Audioquest or Cambridge for a starter...(***)

Do note: Qobuz etc DON'T offer lossy codecs like 320 aac/mp3 anymore (these advanced lossy codecs are very rare now, even in digital radio); they stick to lossless or 24-bit; the benefits (to resolution, clarity, naturalness, critical distinctions between recordings, and - musical enjoyment!) are audible and palpable, but dependent on the ability of ears, rooms and systems to reveal them or perceive them. Unmodified computers themselves aren't great at such SQ (sound quality) distinctions; they are not designed to be.

As I've often said, here I've run Audirvana+/Qobuz for streaming since 2016 (lossless then, now hi-res or lossless, 100% stable and excellent-sounding, great search, most booklets instantly available), but still play CDs and SACDs, delving into those godknowshowmany 1000s of physical discs, and still buying new ones if the affections dictate and tightened budget allows....

(***) Various wireless systems include the DAC in the receiver and do much of the work for you (i.e. in the active speaker, e.g. the KEF LS ranges - though these are a bit pricy..); quality very variable as ever, price/design dependent)

Dinosaurs prefer the simple life, but perhaps that was their downfall.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Dinosaurs prefer the simple life, but perhaps that was their downfall.

I have to say I think CDs are going the way of dinosaurs.

[LMcD]

Dinosaurs prefer the simple life, but perhaps that was their downfall.

I'm genuinely impressed with all the above technical stuff, but I think I'll stick with my £8 Philips radio/CD player/ cassette player, my TV and the stuff I can find on YouTube and elsewhere on the net via my PC. I used to worry about my ability to keep things simple, but now I think I've just about got the hang of it.

[vinteuil]

Dinosaurs prefer the simple life, but perhaps that was their downfall.

.

I have to say I think CDs are going the way of dinosaurs.

... as Eine Alpensinf: has helpfully reminded us :

Anyway, the term “dinosaur” is no longer a good one. These creatures lived on the planet for 150,000,000 years. The human race has been around for a tiny fraction of that...

.

[Bryn]

Dinosaurs prefer the simple life, but perhaps that was their downfall.

At least their polycarbonate base can be chopped up and recycled. Would that the same was true of horribly polluting vinyl discs, but it's not.

[Nick Armstrong]

In most double-blind listening tests I have read of, the results chime with your experience. That's not to say particularly acute ears cannot detect the difference.

I just prefer the Qobuz ‘interface’ / ‘user experience’ or whatever the phrase is.

You do sometimes have to second-guess & outwit its erratic search facility

[LMcD]

At least their polycarbonate base can be chopped up and recycled. Would that the same was true of horribly polluting vinyl discs, but it's not.

Did I read or hear somewhere that vinyl discs are making something of a comeback?

[Bryn]

I just prefer the Qobuz ‘interface’ / ‘user experience’ or whatever the phrase is.

You do sometimes have to second-guess & outwit its erratic search facility

Re your second paragraph/sentence, I do, I do.

[Richard Barrett]

Did I read or hear somewhere that vinyl discs are making something of a comeback?

You did and they are. I wish I hadn't sold off almost all of mine when I left the UK in 1993. If I'd held on to them they'd be worth a fortune now.