Prince Philip 1921-2021

[cloughie]

I'm sorry (humph!)

All right (Jack).

[french frank]

Getting back to the OP and the Guardian, this is what their newsletter has just said on the subject:

"We've never been terribly royalist and over the years have mixed detached criticism for the institution with a measure of respect for some of its harder-working members, and a dash of indifference too. But we will never be a media organisation that ignores the royals. That would in itself be, erm, an abdication, given how their lives cut across so many issues. For the record we published about 50 pieces on the Duke of Edinburgh across the Guardian and Observer over four days." So, too much or not enough, LMcD?

[LMcD]

Getting back to the OP and the Guardian, this is what their newsletter has just said on the subject:

"We've never been terribly royalist and over the years have mixed detached criticism for the institution with a measure of respect for some of its harder-working members, and a dash of indifference too. But we will never be a media organisation that ignores the royals. That would in itself be, erm, an abdication, given how their lives cut across so many issues. For the record we published about 50 pieces on the Duke of Edinburgh across the Guardian and Observer over four days." So, too much or not enough, LMcD?

I think Saturday's Guardian got it right as far as the Prince Philip story was concerned - my disappointment arose from just about everything else. The magazine was of even less interest to me than that in The Times - and that bar was set pretty low - and I found the the range of arts reviews decidedly limited. None of the contributors appealed as much as Matthew Parris and Hugo Rifkind.

[french frank]

I think Saturday's Guardian got it right as far as the Prince Philip story was concerned - my disappointment arose from just about everything else. The magazine was of even less interest to me than that in The Times - and that bar was set pretty low - and I found the the range of arts reviews decidedly limited. None of the contributors appealed as much as Matthew Parris and Hugo Rifkind.

Fair enough As I only have a digital subscription I didn't realise there was a magazine section I only read the news stories that I pick out from their e-news briefing. Then I look for a BBC version, or any other one I notice by surfing. Sometimes even the Mail the Sun or the Express. I might read the Times if I have any free articles left.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm pleased to see that they have an obituary worthy of another just deceased figure, target of left and right, my political role model Shirley Williams.

I might have known, or preferred not to have - should have guessed.

It's a sure sign of relativism that Ms Williams should have been thought quite left wing in her advanced years, and that I for one felt a twinge of respect at her passing to the point of wondering if she should have had a thread of her own, as that certainly wasn't the case back in the 1970s, when many thought her "generosity of spirit" decidedly suspect.

[french frank]

I might have known, or preferred not to have - should have guessed.

It's a sure sign of relativism that Ms Williams should have been thought quite left wing in her advanced years, and that I for one felt a twinge of respect at her passing to the point of wondering if she should have had a thread of her own, as that certainly wasn't the case back in the 1970s, when many thought her "generosity of spirit" decidedly suspect.

I think that whether she was considered 'left-wing' or not IS relative - it relates to one's own stance. As a minister she would have been considered 'progressive' for championing and introducing comprehensives - for which the right will never forgive her. But as a pragmatist - or a practical politician - she felt the Labour Party went too far left with Militant and with Michael Foot. But (as I recall) the major issue which caused the split was the manifesto pledging to take the UK out of the EU. How times change!

[Ein Heldenleben]

I think that whether she was considered 'left-wing' or not IS relative - it relates to one's own stance. As a minister she would have been considered 'progressive' for championing and introducing comprehensives - for which the right will never forgive her. But as a pragmatist - or a practical politician - she felt the Labour Party went too far left with Militant and with Michael Foot. But (as I recall) the major issue which caused the split was the manifesto pledging to take the UK out of the EU. How times change!

I think it was Tony Crosland who really started and gave the major impetus to the Comprehensive movement in the 60’s wasn’t it ? I’m also not sure that the issue is quite the left / right issue you imply particularly given the number of Labour voters who make strenuous efforts to get their children into a Grammar school (where they remain) or indeed pay for private education .

[french frank]

I’m also not sure that the issue is quite the left / right issue you imply particularly given the number of Labour voters who make strenuous efforts to get their children into a Grammar school (where they remain) or indeed pay for private education .

Let's just say it was unpopular then. The obituary stresses SW's 'egalitarianism' - I'm not sure whether Labour supporters are necessarily egalitarians. Some friends I knew (not Labour supporters) insisted on sending their children to comps even though they could well afford independent schools.

As a very Middle-of-the-Road person (very dangerous where there's a lot of traffic), I was pleased to find this quote which seems relevant in many contexts:

"We don't need a handful of people doing it perfectly. We need millions of people doing it imperfectly." Vegetarianism, environmental, political …

[Ein Heldenleben]

Let's just say it was unpopular then. The obituary stresses SW's 'egalitarianism' - I'm not sure whether Labour supporters are necessarily egalitarians. Some friends I knew (not Labour supporters) insisted on sending their children to comps even though they could well afford independent schools.

As a very Middle-of-the-Road person (very dangerous where there's a lot of traffic), I was pleased to find this quote which seems relevant in many contexts:

"We don't need a handful of people doing it perfectly. We need millions of people doing it imperfectly." Vegetarianism, environmental, political …

It’s interesting isn’t it ? I seem to remember rows over comprehensive / grammar education disfiguring many a pub evening or in the case of adults dinner parties in the 70’s - people really fell out over it and very often not over left right lines. The real push to abolish grammars in London came under the Tories for example. Now very few people give a stuff *. The real topic seems to be how to scrape together the mortgage to live in the right catchment area.Whatever system you devise those with the knowledge and the money will always game it.
* in other words very few seem to be arguing for going back to the old system.

[french frank]

It’s interesting isn’t it ? I seem to remember rows over comprehensive / grammar education disfiguring many a pub evening or in the case of adults dinner parties in the 70’s - people really fell out over it and very often not over left right lines. The real push to abolish grammars in London came under the Tories for example. Now very few people give a stuff

Crush me if I'm wrong - but wasn't that actually M. Thatcher who was definitely less well-connected than Williams? By that time I suppose the battle to maintain - and indeed the argument for - the old grammar school was lost.

The real topic seems to be how to scrape together the mortgage to live in the right catchment area.Whatever system you devise those with the knowledge and the money will always game it.

Yes, there were good comprehensives and sink schools, though they did seem to coincide with middle class and working class areas anyway. Incidentally, on Crosland, yes he was in charge of Education for a couple of years at the start of the main Labour move towards comps (and seems also to have been regarded as a 'right-wing' social democrat), but Williams took over with the implementation and I don't recall Crosland getting the same flak from the political right at the time.

[Ein Heldenleben]

[QUOTE=french frank;843240]Crush me if I'm wrong - but wasn't that actually M. Thatcher who was definitely less well-connected than Williams? By that time I suppose the battle to maintain - and indeed the argument for - the old grammar school was lost.


Yes I think Thatcher tried to put a brake on things but it was too late. This is from Wiki

“In 1970 Margaret Thatcher, the Secretary of State for Education in the new Conservative government, ended the compulsion on local authorities to convert, however, many local authorities were so far down the path that it would have been prohibitively expensive to attempt to reverse the process, and more comprehensive schools were established under Thatcher than any other education secretary.”

[Hitch]

*cough*

https://twitter.com/PrivateEyeNews/status/1382225257541537793?s=19

[Ein Heldenleben]

*cough*

https://twitter.com/PrivateEyeNews/s...541537793?s=19

Thanks - Can I be the first to say that I’m cancelling my subscription because I’m offended ? (Just kidding)

[Richard Barrett]

“In 1970 Margaret Thatcher, the Secretary of State for Education in the new Conservative government, ended the compulsion on local authorities to convert, however, many local authorities were so far down the path that it would have been prohibitively expensive to attempt to reverse the process, and more comprehensive schools were established under Thatcher than any other education secretary.”

She then took revenge by snatching children's free milk.

[french frank]

*cough*

https://twitter.com/PrivateEyeNews/s...541537793?s=19

Appalling bad taste - but not actually offensive!