Prince Philip 1921-2021

[Serial_Apologist]

Well you gave me the impression you were not happy with a monarchy so you must wish for something different in its place!

You're just being obtuse, cloughie!

[cloughie]

You're just being obtuse, cloughie!

Gives more scope than being acute but suggests I’m not right! But then we’re talking about who is head of the Angles (& Celts of course).

[alywin]

It was inevitable that his public role of walking two steps behind the Queen would be seen as his only role by the majority of people, and many of the comments I have read and heard suggest that his life was as a consequence one long jolly, and not worth commemorating. The idea that he had a life aside from that role just doesn't enter the consciousness, but in some respects that doesn't matter since he himself wasn't after plaudits, and those who benefited in whatever field knew and they were the ones who mattered, not the world's press.

True. Except that, in a way, it DOES matter, because look how much ignorance there was about him when he died - as Anastasius indicates - and ignorance can breed all sorts of incorrect assumptions. You only have to look at the recent Oprah interview to realise that.

[oddoneout]

True. Except that, in a way, it DOES matter, because look how much ignorance there was about him when he died - as Anastasius indicates - and ignorance can breed all sorts of incorrect assumptions. You only have to look at the recent Oprah interview to realise that.

You are right, but so much of what is said, whether good or bad, has little to do with facts that can be used to alter or correct the narrative because whether a person is liked or not is so often governed by "gut reaction", or personal characteristics that don't lend themselves to analysis and cold facts. One can experience antipathy to someone for no good reason and that inevitably colours how one interprets their behaviour as you perceive it - as the Meghan/Oprah episode showed.
Covid deniers and anti-vaxxers, certainly of the more extreme variety, are not amenable to reasoned argument and facts, so how much more difficult to correct misinformation that may well be the result of personality clash rather than something actually being wrong. The constant repetition of a very selective and limited number of high profile "gaffes"(some of which were committed a lifetime) ago has erected a very effective filter in many peoples' minds, so even if there was a strong counter-narrative I don't know how effective it would be at breaking through, especially given the way media controls public opinion. It reminds me of the situation with the EU.
An added difficulty is that the person putting the counter-opinion may also be subject to a filter effect (which may or may not be justified) which affects the extent to which that narrative is accepted.

[Cockney Sparrow]

To my mind, these days
If you dislike a person, or their position, role, politics or other stance
The next step is to seize on every gaffe and build it/them up to proof of an allegation - tranagression of one of the "age of Twitter" mores to feed the (apparent) appetite for outrage.
If the attack can be sustained, it can trash that person's standing.
Move on to the next target.

Perhaps that has always happened, but the technology makes it faster and easier to have greater impact.

From what I read, the Duke of E was good at breaking the ice with people he met - it was observed he managed to get them smiling and laughing very often. Given his role, and often accompanying The Queen (who I haven't read has the same immediacy in striking up rapport) that was a valuable quality.

There's no real evidence he was a racist, and over a long life there were gaffes from the conversational risks he took. He no doubt changed some of his attitudes over time as all of us were bidden to do. I'm much less impressed with the calculated, inaccurate but harmful slurs imbedded in the Oprah interview - although I admit I didn't watch it more than once and didn't think it was worth even that much of my time (although the media and many many people around the world appear to have hung on every word and swallowed every inference).

[oddoneout]

To my mind, these days
If you dislike a person, or their position, role, politics or other stance
The next step is to seize on every gaffe and build it/them up to proof of an allegation - tranagression of one of the "age of Twitter" mores to feed the (apparent) appetite for outrage.
If the attack can be sustained, it can trash that person's standing.
Move on to the next target.

Perhaps that has always happened, but the technology makes it faster and easier to have greater impact.

From what I read, the Duke of E was good at breaking the ice with people he met - it was observed he managed to get them smiling and laughing very often. Given his role, and often accompanying The Queen (who I haven't read has the same immediacy in striking up rapport) that was a valuable quality.

There's no real evidence he was a racist, and over a long life there were gaffes from the conversational risks he took. He no doubt changed some of his attitudes over time as all of us were bidden to do. I'm much less impressed with the calculated, inaccurate but harmful slurs imbedded in the Oprah interview - although I admit I didn't watch it more than once and didn't think it was worth even that much of my time (although the media and many many people around the world appear to have hung on every word and swallowed every inference).

INdeed, t'was ever thus - lifeblood of religion, politics, art... These days though the speed with which a head of steam can be built up and a view be embedded I find frightening, not least because even slowing down such a process, let alone stopping it and undoing the harm seems impossible.

[mikealdren]

To my mind he was an interesting individual and wonderfully 'politically incorrect', so refreshing in these modern times where many hardly dare express a contrary view.

[kernelbogey]

I think I can say with some truth that I have lived a life on which he has barely impinged. When the DoE scheme was launched, while I was at school, I was already in the school scout troop, and few people did both: they were not quite rivals, but you did one or the other.

Apart from laughing aghast at some of his remarks, the rest of my life passed by without either of us taking note of the other....! I am not a royaist, nor a follower of news about them - nor particularly a republican: but I can vividly remember exactly where I was when I heard the news of Diana's death. It was not long after [or so I had thought*] that I heard of Philip saying 'Do you know they now have eating dogs for the anorexic'. It is sort of ghastly-funny: but it mostly set me thinkng about what it had been like for Diana (of all people) to marry into a famly where such things could be said.

[Cockney Sparrow]

I think I can say with some truth that I have lived a life on which he has barely impinged.

Same here.

I am not a royaist, nor a follower of news about them - nor particularly a republican

Me too; as to news - not an avid follower but I do read/listen to some of it.

but I can vividly remember exactly where I was when I heard the news of Diana's death. It was not long after that I heard of Philip saying 'Do you know they now have eating dogs for the anorexic'.

He made the remark in May 2002, whereas she died in August 1997. I wasn't motivated, particularly, to rush to the defence of the man. I just wondered about accuracy, and whether it was an instance of how negative views do the rounds.

[kernelbogey]

He made the remark in May 2002, whereas she died in August 1997. I wasn't motivated, particularly, to rush to the defence of the man. I just wondered about accuracy, and whether it was an instance of how negative views do the rounds.

Given his education, and generation, I could imagine that a father in law capable of cracking such a 'joke' could well have been part of how she felt (for want of a better word at this time of night) oppressed by the family into which she had married. No wonder she roller-skated around the Palace with earbuds in....!

I just wondered about accuracy

You are right to question its veracity: I recognise that I had swallowed it as true.

[LMcD]

I think I can say with some truth that I have lived a life on which he has barely impinged. When the DoE scheme was launched, while I was at school, I was already in the school scout troop, and few people did both: they were not quite rivals, but you did one or the other.

Apart from laughing aghast at some of his remarks, the rest of my life passed by without either of us taking note of the other....! I am not a royaist, nor a follower of news about them - nor particularly a republican: but I can vividly remember exactly where I was when I heard the news of Diana's death. It was not long after [or so I had thought*] that I heard of Philip saying 'Do you know they now have eating dogs for the anorexic'. It is sort of ghastly-funny: but it mostly set me thinkng about what it had been like for Diana (of all people) to marry into a famly where such things could be said.

[oddoneout]

I think I can say with some truth that I have lived a life on which he has barely impinged. When the DoE scheme was launched, while I was at school, I was already in the school scout troop, and few people did both: they were not quite rivals, but you did one or the other.

Apart from laughing aghast at some of his remarks, the rest of my life passed by without either of us taking note of the other....! I am not a royaist, nor a follower of news about them - nor particularly a republican: but I can vividly remember exactly where I was when I heard the news of Diana's death. It was not long after [or so I had thought*] that I heard of Philip saying 'Do you know they now have eating dogs for the anorexic'. It is sort of ghastly-funny: but it mostly set me thinkng about what it had been like for Diana (of all people) to marry into a famly where such things could be said.

As I understand it the relationship between Diana and the Duke was good, as indicated by the letters they exchanged, some of which were presented at her inquest.. Not understanding anorexia continues even today so any lack on that front would not have been unusual - my parents and grandparents didn't understand nor know how to help me either. Looking at the reports of the eating dog incident suggests the person to whom the remark was made was not put out by it, the outrage was not of her making.

[cat]

Apart from laughing aghast at some of his remarks, the rest of my life passed by without either of us taking note of the other....! I am not a royaist, nor a follower of news about them - nor particularly a republican: but I can vividly remember exactly where I was when I heard the news of Diana's death. It was not long after [or so I had thought*] that I heard of Philip saying 'Do you know they now have eating dogs for the anorexic'. It is sort of ghastly-funny: but it mostly set me thinkng about what it had been like for Diana (of all people) to marry into a famly where such things could be said.

I think a few off jokes by the Duke would have paled into insignificance compared with the goings-on in her own family, which was more aristocratic and more dysfunctional than the royals. For example she pushed her step-mother down the stairs at a party for ignoring her birth mother, who later famously called her a whore for sleeping with Muslims.

[Pulcinella]

I think a few off jokes by the Duke would have paled into insignificance compared with the goings-on in own family, which was more aristocratic and more dysfunctional than the royals. For example she pushed her step-mother down the stairs at a party for ignoring her birth mother, who later famously called her a whore for sleeping with Muslims.

Which reminds me: we don't hear much about acid rain these days; is it no longer an issue?

[gradus]

Something about being able to choose friends but not relatives springs to mind.