Backing up emails

[Anastasius]

There are several methods used to get emails to your computer. One of these is IMAP. Nothing wrong with it but .....

Are you aware that the emails (sent and received) never actually end up on your computer ? They remain on the mail server that is located at the company that provides your email service. So that means that when you backup your computer, you are NOT BACKING UP your emails. DAMHIKT.

There are methods of working with email that help solve this although not without their own problems.

Anyway, just wanted to alert people to this as I naively and embarrassingly forgot all about this and lost 3 years of Sent emails.

[Dave2002]

Never fully figured this out. Some files definitely do get stored locally - for example emails which include photo attachments. That can be a pain, as sometimes one doesn't want to keep the photo, but would like to keep the text.

Essentially the headers do get downloaded to one's own email, and then the rest of the email - including photos - gets pulled over when one looks at the email.

If you really wanted those Sent emails are you absolutely sure that they're not still on the remote servers? Perhaps it depends on the provider. In my limited and not conclusive experience, some providers such as Gmail seem to keep email for a long while, perhaps because they trawl through them to find loads of connections. This has caused me problems in the past as if the email accounts are set up on new machines sometimes massive amounts of old email re-appears on the new systems - which is fine if the machine has enough space, but if it's a limited storage laptop simply crashes it, causing a near endless loop of crashes which can be hard to break out of.

If you have enough space on your system you can force some email to be downloaded and stored locally. For Sent email - if you don't trust or want to trust the service provider, you can send a copy of each outgoing email to one of your email accounts (maybe with a different provider), and then force a download from there. That method would increase your data traffic. I'm not sure if it's possible to force a local copy of any Sent mail - assuming that isn't what already happens.

[Frances_iom]

There are several methods used to get emails to your computer. One of these is IMAP. Nothing wrong with it but .....
.

and you just answered your own question - I'll guess you use Google mail - might as well publish your emails in a local paper (if still exists) as Dave another habitué of walled gardens points out they are read to remove both your and your respondent's privacy.

[gurnemanz]

I decided a while ago that using webmail is a preferable option and now no longer use a client app or download mails to computer except to save specific content or attachments. Local backup is unnecessary since all incoming and outgoing mails are stored on the server and easily accessible. You can delete or retain them there as you wish. I suppose there could be a problem if you change provider, which for me would be one reason to avoid doing so.

[french frank]

Never fully figured this out.

I still haven't . Recently, Apple talked me through wiping the hard drive of my iMac and I restored it via Time Machine, including all my email folders from where I always accessed the filed emails. Once moved to the folders they disappear from my MacBook but in what sense was Time Machine not 'backing up' the emails? No long words, please …

[Dave2002]

and you just answered your own question - I'll guess you use Google mail - might as well publish your emails in a local paper (if still exists) as Dave another habitué of walled gardens points out they are read to remove both your and your respondent's privacy.

If you want to remain private don't use a computer at all. Or a mobile phone.

[Anastasius]

and you just answered your own question - I'll guess you use Google mail - might as well publish your emails in a local paper (if still exists) as Dave another habitué of walled gardens points out they are read to remove both your and your respondent's privacy.

No I don't use gmail. I have my own website and my personal email address(es) live there. Hosted by 123-reg.

[Anastasius]

I decided a while ago that using webmail is a preferable option and now no longer use a client app or download mails to computer except to save specific content or attachments. Local backup is unnecessary since all incoming and outgoing mails are stored on the server and easily accessible. You can delete or retain them there as you wish. I suppose there could be a problem if you change provider, which for me would be one reason to avoid doing so.

Or your provider messes things up ! Then you're well and truly stuffed.

[Anastasius]

Never fully figured this out. Some files definitely do get stored locally - for example emails which include photo attachments. That can be a pain, as sometimes one doesn't want to keep the photo, but would like to keep the text.

Essentially the headers do get downloaded to one's own email, and then the rest of the email - including photos - gets pulled over when one looks at the email.

If you really wanted those Sent emails are you absolutely sure that they're not still on the remote servers? Perhaps it depends on the provider. In my limited and not conclusive experience, some providers such as Gmail seem to keep email for a long while, perhaps because they trawl through them to find loads of connections. This has caused me problems in the past as if the email accounts are set up on new machines sometimes massive amounts of old email re-appears on the new systems - which is fine if the machine has enough space, but if it's a limited storage laptop simply crashes it, causing a near endless loop of crashes which can be hard to break out of.

If you have enough space on your system you can force some email to be downloaded and stored locally. For Sent email - if you don't trust or want to trust the service provider, you can send a copy of each outgoing email to one of your email accounts (maybe with a different provider), and then force a download from there. That method would increase your data traffic. I'm not sure if it's possible to force a local copy of any Sent mail - assuming that isn't what already happens.

My understanding is that with IMAP there is mo such thing as 'copy'. It is a 'Move and Delete from the original location. ie the mail server at your provider. I know this to be the case as I have rules set up on Apple Mail that will file incoming emails away for me. But once that's done, it then disappears from the server and can no longer be viewed with, say, a smartphone.

As far as the Sent emails go then cc'ing them would work but that would be such a faff unless it could be automated as a default. Worth investigating though.

[Anastasius]

I still haven't . Recently, Apple talked me through wiping the hard drive of my iMac and I restored it via Time Machine, including all my email folders from where I always accessed the filed emails. Once moved to the folders they disappear from my MacBook but in what sense was Time Machine not 'backing up' the emails? No long words, please …

That was very brave of you, relying on TN. I thought that you used a grown-up backup program like SuperDuper ?

Do you use iCould ?

[french frank]

That was very brave of you, relying on TN. I thought that you used a grown-up backup program like SuperDuper ?

Do you use iCould ?

Well, I thought it was very brave of me, but I was helped until it came to restoring when I was sent written instructions. Yes, I also have SuperDuper! and I had backed up on both drives before starting. But about the emails, I suppose if there had still been some in the Inbox or Sent folder they would still have been on the server? I usually delete or file them all every day.

[johnb]

For my main e-mail account I use a "traditional" email client, Outlook, and POP3 - so all my emails are downloaded onto my hard drive and can be backed up in full as part of a normal backup routine.

As far as images embedded in emails are concerned, my email client is set to only show text, so initially those images are not downloaded. However, I have the options to then display the message as HTML and, separately, display (i.e. download) the images, which I only do with known senders.

The main drawback to using POP3 is that my main email is only accessible from one computer, but that's fine for me.

From time to time I use separate webmail, such as gmail, for some things but anything important goes on my main email account (using POP3).

[Dave2002]

That was very brave of you, relying on TM. I thought that you used a grown-up backup program like SuperDuper ?

I use all of those tools - also CCC - Carbon Copy Cloner - sometimes. Having said that, the one time when I actually had to use one to do a complete restore it was actually TM which did the job - though it took almost forever.

Which reminds me - I ought to start doing backups again. I keep getting the little nags "1001 days since the last backup", and think "oh - just one more day ...."

[Roslynmuse]

I keep getting the little nags "1001 days since the last backup", and think "oh - just one more day ...."

A bit like Scheherazade then?

[gurnemanz]

Or your provider messes things up ! Then you're well and truly stuffed.

Yes. But so far so good and I am the one more likely to be messing up, which I did more than once using Thunderbird as a client. In my case the vast majority of old mails are not of lasting interest and wouldn't be seriously missed. I make sure I do save anything I really don't want to lose.