A courteous, intelligent and informed discussion about religion

[Don Basilio]

Some of my best friends are atheists or agnostics. I have know truly ghastly people in churches, even the Church of England. Indeed particularly the Church of England.

Rather than clog up ff's poll, I wanted to comment on this -

Originally Posted by Don Basilio View Post
What I have noticed more and more is that unimaginative, fundamentalist, literalist, inconsiderate, intolerant posts come increasingly from anti-religionists.

I believe this is what is known as getting your retaliation in first

But surely just as a matter of polemic policy, if you know those you disagree with are going to make fools of themselves, it is better to let them go ahead, rather than imitate their silliness?

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

...dogmatism and the howling pack .... a universal human phenomenon quite independent of the content ... religion, flat earth, darwinism ..... science etc ... one of our more lethal and offensive characteristics methinks ....

[Serial_Apologist]

Not inborn

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

...we ll it might well be or at least a derived behaviour from our very basic social capacities, it is how we age war or compete for terrain .... oddly the worst i have encountered in the educated sphere was the behaviour of the evo psch brigade, now they all have tenure and research funding they have calmed somewhat .... it is also a scapegoating or purifying mechanism ... [when i finally finish sorting the books i will post a reference to it]

[eighthobstruction]

As was said on R4 today....[Historically] Jesus probably thought the world was flat....

[french frank]

In discussing 'religion' there are so many linked issues: faith and reason, theology and doctrine, politics and history. And more. In most attacks on religion there's a kind of generalised onslaught: one powerful detail ('it's irrational') being supported by another ('look at the suffering it causes'), to justify the position.

And the 'problem' with religion is that it appears to resist all normal arguments, it has its own justifications which frustrate debate, a seeming declaration that the normal order somehow 'doesn't apply' in the usual way. And that seems inadequate.

I suspect that the origin of most internet-age religious 'wars' lies with people who spend very little time thinking about the subject because they already know they're right. Self-evidently.

[Flay]

Harold Pinter - The Homecoming:

"How can the unknown merit reverence? In other words how can you revere that of which you are ignorant? At the same time, it would be ridiculous to propose that what we know merits reverence. What we know merits any one of a number of things, but it stands to reason reverence isn't one of them. In other words, apart from the known and the unknown, what else is there?"

(My tickets to see it at The Swan in Stratford have arrived. Can't wait! )

[Ariosto]

I suspect that the origin of most internet-age religious 'wars' lies with people who spend very little time thinking about the subject because they already know they're right. Self-evidently.

I'm surprised you actually said that f-f - but then nothing surprises me on this forum really - especially when it comes to musical judgement.

[Ferretfancy]

I went to a funeral today, and it was a Christian ceremony. As an atheist, was I wrong to go? As ever I examined my inner thoughts and convinced myself that I was there for my deceased friend and those who loved her, and believed that I was right to do so. Atheists have to make decisions like this if they believe in tolerating the beliefs of others, but let's not pretend that it can go without thought. It is possible to be a non militant atheist you know Religion is not going to disappear, but from time to time I must defend my conviction that Hl Mencken was correct when he said that belief in what is palpably untrue is the chief occupation of mankind.

[Anna]

I suspect that the origin of most internet-age religious 'wars' lies with people who spend very little time thinking about the subject because they already know they're right. Self-evidently.

Agreed. The Church in Wales that I attend is very high (altar boys, sanctus bells, lashings of incense, probably Anglo-Catholic most would say) I have many friends who are Methodists (the religion of choice in Wales?), they look down on us as following The Vicar of Rome and idol worshipping, we look down on them as being wishy-washy without passion and almost akin to being Vegans and Baptists are cold fish and are rather wet, in fact probably the Baptists are worse. So, I am just agreeing with french frank, I know I'm right, they know they're right. But there is no proof, which is why a religion board would be more trouble than it's worth.

I probably have now shot meself in the foot.

[Simon]

And the 'problem' with religion is that it appears to resist all normal arguments, it has its own justifications which frustrate debate, a seeming declaration that the normal order somehow 'doesn't apply' in the usual way.

I don't know what religions you've been discussing, but that certainly isn't the case with mine! If it were I wouldn't give it tuppence.

And that seems inadequate

And so it would to me, too!

[Serial_Apologist]

Agreed. The Church in Wales that I attend is very high (altar boys, sanctus bells, lashings of incense, probably Anglo-Catholic most would say) I have many friends who are Methodists (the religion of choice in Wales?), they look down on us as following The Vicar of Rome and idol worshipping, we look down on them as being wishy-washy without passion and almost akin to being Vegans and Baptists are cold fish and are rather wet, in fact probably the Baptists are worse. So, I am just agreeing with french frank, I know I'm right, they know they're right. But there is no proof, which is why a religion board would be more trouble than it's worth.

I probably have now shot meself in the foot.

Probably not, Anna

There are all sorts of things one has to take on faith, because otherwise we would burn ourselves out with constant anxiety. When I cycled to the shops earlier today, for instance, it was on faith that I wouldn't be knocked down, suffer a stroke, or have my bike nicked, even though it was locked.

Or would this be a bad analogy?

[eighthobstruction]

What it has shown....is that there is a side of french frank that is a bit of a nutter....[very glad to hear it]....[and she can probably argue her point in french too]....

....what had she spread on her toast the day she first broached this [i.e. ideas, rel' board]....??

....Aaaaaaaah....silly season

[Serial_Apologist]

What it has shown....is that there is a side of french frank that is a bit of a nutter....[very glad to hear it]....[and she can probably argue her point in french too]....

....what had she spread on her toast the day she broached this??....

....Aaaaaaaah....silly season

You t e a s e. you!

[salymap]

If we can discussion religion on Platform 3 like this why do we need another place for it? I wish now I'd voted against it.