Duolingo

[Petrushka]

One lockdown project that I still haven't got round to doing is to learn a new language. A friend mentioned Duolingo.

Has anyone tried this and can recommend? If not, what would be recommended?

Tried Polish for Dummies a few years ago and it was such hard work that I gave up. Not looking at any particular language but would like to do it more for fun rather than serious intent. Am I too old (at 66) to make a first time attempt?

[french frank]

One lockdown project that I still haven't got round to doing is to learn a new language. A friend mentioned Duolingo.

Has anyone tried this and can recommend? If not, what would be recommended?

Tried Polish for Dummies a few years ago and it was such hard work that I gave up. Not looking at any particular language but would like to do it more for fun rather than serious intent. Am I too old (at 66) to make a first time attempt?

Yep, I 've been using it to brush up my Welsh for a project I was working on. Mark certainly started it for Greek but I haven't asked if he persevered. I thought he wouldn't take to it because he already knew some languages and there's a definite "This is for Dummies" aspect which either irritates or you just take it on board. In the case of Welsh, it was explained that it was also tailored for Welsh schoolchildren (it felt a bit like it).

But: there are notes for each lesson, there's a discussion board with hosts who will answer questions (sometimes ), and it costs nothing. If you're doing it for fun, I'd advise ignoring all the 'rewards' ('lingots') and racing up through the leagues to reach the top. I don't think that that kind of incentive is the best way to learn unless you're not very motivated. I haven't tried learning from scratch, and I have already learnt several languages. But, again, it costs nothing if you want to give it a try. I don't know about any (better) alternative. It isn't really geared for teaching you to speak the language though.

[Dave2002]

One lockdown project that I still haven't got round to doing is to learn a new language. A friend mentioned Duolingo.

Has anyone tried this and can recommend? If not, what would be recommended?

Tried Polish for Dummies a few years ago and it was such hard work that I gave up. Not looking at any particular language but would like to do it more for fun rather than serious intent. Am I too old (at 66) to make a first time attempt?

Don't know about Duolingo - probably heard of it, but not tried it. If you don't need the language, but just want the challenge, then I'd say "go for it". I think there are languages which are easier. Polish may be one of the more difficult ones, and I'd add in Hungarian, Estonian and Finnish as well. Then there's Chinese and Japanese - those are tough, because you've not only got to get to grips with the words and pronunciation, but also the scripts.

Do you have any knowledge of other languages already? If not I'd suggest Spanish is possibly the most useful and relatively easy - and many people around the world speak a variety of Spanish. Italian is somewhat similar, but less useful, as relatively few people speak it. Portuguese and Danish and Icelandic seem very hard to me, as the pronunciation is so bizarre.

If you have time, I would suggest Chinese, as it's so different. Otherwise you could try Russian so at least you could impress your friends by reading the librettos of works such as Boris Godunov.

Language learning is - arguably - supposed to be beneficial at preserving mental agility.

Good luck - whatever you decide.

PS: Lidl sometimes have language CDs for about £5 a set - usually French, Itaian, Spanish and German I think. I used to play through those in my car. Didn't make me very proficient, but it helped to pass the time.

[Petrushka]

Yep, I 've been using it to brush up my Welsh for a project I was working on. Mark certainly started it for Greek but I haven't asked if he persevered. I thought he wouldn't take to it because he already knew some languages and there's a definite "This is for Dummies" aspect which either irritates or you just take it on board. In the case of Welsh, it was explained that it was also tailored for Welsh schoolchildren (it felt a bit like it).

But: there are notes for each lesson, there's a discussion board with hosts who will answer questions (sometimes ), and it costs nothing. If you're doing it for fun, I'd advise ignoring all the 'rewards' ('lingots') and racing up through the leagues to reach the top. I don't think that that kind of incentive is the best way to learn unless you're not very motivated. I haven't tried learning from scratch, and I have already learnt several languages. But, again, it costs nothing if you want to give it a try. I don't know about any (better) alternative. It isn't really geared for teaching you to speak the language though.

That's interesting, thanks. Having taken a look at it last week I wasn't that enthused by the 'rewards' aspect so if it's okay to ignore such things it seems worth a go. The 'This is for Dummies' thing should be just right for me

I have a relative who finds learning languages a bit of a doddle and says that Finnish is one of the most difficult so she went for it just for the challenge.

To answer Dave 2002: Apart from opera libretti and trips abroad I've no real experience as languages were not done at school in my day (they were later) so it's for a bit of mental agility in both retirement/lockdown.

[Dave2002]

I have a relative who finds learning languages a bit of a doddle and says that Finnish is one of the most difficult so she went for it just for the challenge.

We saw La Traviata in Helsinki. Ordering the tickets was a challenge - but the helpful person said when we enquired about what language was going to be used (answer Italian ...) - oh - it'll be fine. There'll be surtitles.

Indeed there were - and it was amazing to see the Finnish words drift across above the stage, and one could almost play a guessing game as to whether the end of the word would show up before the first few letters disappeared off at the left hand edge. Needless to say, the surtitles were a useless, totally incomprehensible, but nevertheless amusing, addition to our experience.

Finns often have a strong upper hand in negotiations, as they can nearly all speak and understand English and also Swedish, but when they retreat to Finnish nobody else has a clue what they're saying.

[french frank]

Apart from opera libretti and trips abroad I've no real experience as languages were not done at school in my day (they were later) so it's for a bit of mental agility in both retirement/lockdown.

It did take me a little while to discover where the notes were, but for the mental exercise the thing to do is study the notes thoroughly before each exercise, then use the audio lessons as a test that you've understood them - rather than thinking of the lessons as the main place where you learn.

[Dave2002]

Seems to be "free" - though presumably with nags and adverts to pay after a trial period. Might give it a try - is there any limit to the number of languages one "enrolls" for?

Also - following up on a few comments from above - if one already has some knowledge of a language, can one skip through sessions, to get to a level where there would be real benefits?

https://www.duolingo.com/

[Petrushka]

Seems to be "free" - though presumably with nags and adverts to pay after a trial period. Might give it a try - is there any limit to the number of languages one "enrolls" for?

Also - following up on a few comments from above - if one already has some knowledge of a language, can one skip through sessions, to get to a level where there would be real benefits?

https://www.duolingo.com/

I was wondering if it is entirely free or do you suddenly have to start paying after a basic level is reached?

[johncorrigan]

Mrs C has been doing Gaelic on Duolingo and really enjoying it - she's stuck with it and said it was helpful when she went back to her online classes. My pal's doing Spanish on Duolingo and also very complimentary about it.

[french frank]

I was wondering if it is entirely free or do you suddenly have to start paying after a basic level is reached?

I've been doing it for over a year. No charge at all, and with AdBlock + I don't see any ads either - just a miserable Duolingo face now and again asking me if I wouldn't rather upgrade to ad-free than use an ad blocker.

[gurnemanz]

I was a language teacher of mainly German with some French and decided to teach myself Spanish to enhance future cultural jaunts. I didn't take to Duolingo. A personal preference since I know it is popular and successful. I sampled a few and settled on Spanish from Scratch which suits me very well.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fastlingo.spanishdemo

[vinteuil]

... so it's for a bit of mental agility in both retirement/lockdown.

... if it's for the mental agility bit (an excellent idea, I think) rather than the practical or literary - you might want to consider how 'difficult' a language you want to have as a challenge. And what sort of difficulty.

Some like the challenge of grappling with a different script - relatively easy like Greek or Russian, more difficult but still alphabetic like Arabic or Hebrew, or really really demanding like an ideogrammatic - Chinese, Japanese.

Or whether something still in our script but grammatically unrelated to English - Hungarian, Finnish, Basque, Maltese..

Many years back I had Arabic - acquiring the script was pretty straightforward : what required brain power was getting your head around a totally different grammatical basis, and what tested the memory was having no vocabulary connexions with what you already know.

But a big reward is the insights in to a whole new way of thinking - fr'instance we are so used to our European tense system, so to encounter a language that doesn't see time like that - Semitic languages only have 'perfective' (something finished) and 'imperfective' (something still on-going) - makes you think more deeply how we perceive the world. If we think in terms of past/present/future, then a 'prophecy' becomes something like a horoscope in a newspaper - "You will meet a tall dark stranger... " - whereas in Arabic or Hebrew, a prophecy is more like God talking in a perpetual not-finished present. I think many (English-speaking) people's reading of the Bible when it comes to prophecy therefore is often prone to deep misunderstanding.

Sorry for the digression - but I do think the learning of a language is the best way of expanding the brain in so many ways.

Good luck!

.

[Petrushka]

I'm thinking of Russian as a possibility. I spent a week in Moscow and Leningrad (as was) many years ago and it was amazing how quickly basic words and pronunciation were picked up and lodged in the memory. Naturally, I took along a phrase book (Berlitz) and had done a some homework as hardly anyone spoke English but it was a real challenge and one I enjoyed.

[Roslynmuse]

..


But a big reward is the insights in to a whole new way of thinking - fr'instance we are so used to our European tense system, so to encounter a language that doesn't see time like that - Semitic languages only have 'perfective' (something finished) and 'imperfective' (something still on-going) - makes you think more deeply how we perceive the world. If we think in terms of past/present/future, then a 'prophecy' becomes something like a horoscope in a newspaper - "You will meet a tall dark stranger... " - whereas in Arabic or Hebrew, a prophecy is more like God talking in a perpetual not-finished present. I think many (English-speaking) people's reading of the Bible when it comes to prophecy therefore is often prone to deep misunderstanding.


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I think this also provides an insight into how other cultures perceive tonal music that relies on relationships between tonalities to make their point - sonata principle being an obvious example. I teach a lot of students whose first language is Chinese and one of the things they find most difficult to recognise is the sense of 'arrival' at a recapitulation in a Classical sonata movement. It is merely one musical moment amongst many. I wouldn't want to labour this point since there are plenty of people who speak languages with the possibility of greater nuances of time who are perhaps not sensitive to tonal arguments, but it's a phenomenon I have been aware of for a while. (I have also discussed it with a number of Chinese professors at various conservatoires and they are broadly in agreement, likening learning how to play tonal music as like learning a new language.)

[Richard Barrett]

I think this also provides an insight into how other cultures perceive tonal music that relies on relationships between tonalities to make their point - sonata principle being an obvious example. I teach a lot of students whose first language is Chinese and one of the things they find most difficult to recognise is the sense of 'arrival' at a recapitulation in a Classical sonata movement. It is merely one musical moment amongst many.

Yes indeed - whereas on the other hand it's not too difficult to find Western people for whom there's something natural and inevitable about tonality. Of course this isn't the product of a particular language, so much as language and certain sensitivities to sound being symptoms of some learned mental/cultural structures that encompass both. I used to find it strange that Japanese speakers often have some trouble distinguishing the l and r sounds in Western language, but more recently I find it even more strange in my current domicile that I have at least as much difficulty distinguishing between the č and ć sounds in Serbian, which locals do without a problem.