The Fountainhead & Atlas shrugged

[Mario]

An acquaintance has suggested I read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, two books by Ann Rand.

Researching them I find that they are highly divisive, extremely contentious books. One review described them as arguably, two of the greatest books ever written, while another described them as the quintessence of evil.

Wow!

Has anyone read these or has any comments on them? A quick research shows that there’s even a club on her views of Objectivism. In a few words, her website describes her philosophy as,

“In essence, the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.” – somewhat selfish, self-publicising and lacking basic Christian values maybe, but evil?

I’ll read them if there’s some benefit to be had – on the other hand, I don’t want to be attacked by monsters at night.

Mario

[Serial_Apologist]

I Ayn sayin' anything!

[eighthobstruction]

....I wouldn't give them shelf space....I have read them....I think they are mouldering in a box in my cellar....big business types vying for supremacy/thin love in dog eat dog world....characters paper thin.....characters motivations a gruel of brick dust and weak tea....better to read Wiki about them + Ayan Rand and that will tell you all you need to know....Some how or another some folk and economists sometimes quote her ref liberterian freedoms $$$$$ (well that's ok for folk with libertarian freedom)....save your money i'd say....

[Belgrove]

They are badly written (and long), but interesting, especially if you want your liberal credentials tested. I’ve never quite seen the difference between her philosophy and that of Nietzsche, but that is probably due to my own shortcomings in understanding philosophy.

The Fountainhead’s protagonist Roake, is likely based on architect Frank Lloyd Wright, and the book was made into a movie (which I’ve not seen) starring Gary Cooper. Atlas Shrugged is heavy going, but is claimed to be have been influential on the thinking of many the founders of silicon valley’s industries. If so, there is something to worry about.

Before taking the plunge, perhaps take a look at Adam Curtis’ mesmerising documentary, All Watched Over By Machines of Loving Grace

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x60xjdl

which explores Rand’s philosophy and those she influenced (one of whom was former director of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan).

[french frank]

An acquaintance has suggested I read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, two books by Ann Rand.

Ayn Rand (not Ann) is a name which instantly repels me without having closely studied her life, thought or works. I might read her work to fill a gap in my knowledge although, as a person, I don't find anyone who supported rational and ethical egoism and rejected altruism at all attractive.

"There are few surer signs of a poor reader, a poor thinker and an unpleasant person than a well-thumbed copy of Atlas Shrugged or The Fountainhead" is a completely biased opinion, with which I'm sorely tempted to agree. Other people may know more, especially about her views on the capitalist system.

But I speak from ignorance : others here may tell you more.

[eighthobstruction]

<<<<<<
“In essence, the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.”>>>>> ....yeah yeah yeah a world like Nietzsches Zarathrustra standing oN a mountain looking down on a spaRCely scattered world ....i.e an unrealistic world/system....

[Serial_Apologist]

They are badly written (and long), but interesting, especially if you want your liberal credentials tested. I’ve never quite seen the difference between her philosophy and that of Nietzsche, but that is probably due to my own shortcomings in understanding philosophy.

The Fountainhead’s protagonist Roake, is likely based on architect Frank Lloyd Wright, and the book was made into a movie (which I’ve not seen) starring Gary Cooper. Atlas Shrugged is heavy going, but is claimed to be have been influential on the thinking of many the founders of silicon valley’s industries. If so, there is something to worry about.

Before taking the plunge, perhaps take a look at Adam Curtis’ mesmerising documentary, All Watched Over By Machines of Loving Grace

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x60xjdl

which explores Rand’s philosophy and those she influenced (one of whom was former director of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan).

Yes yes YES! - that is the documentary to watch. Thanks for reminding us, Belgrove. Curtis's thesis, impregnably substantiated in interviews with some of the leading protagonists, outlines how the de-coupled 1960s Know Thyself hippie lifestyle philosophies that grew up on the West Coast of the US, and as represented over here by Exegesis, would transmogify into the new individualism that turned into the ideological apology for free market Thatcher/Reaganomics in the 1980s. Horses' mouths testify to Rand's centrality to their lives, often intimately, and how she later felt betrayed by them. Rand comes across throughout as a classic sociopath and control freak.

[muzzer]

I read a lot. I haven’t read any Ayn Rand. I’ve read a fair bit about her, I’m confident I don’t need to invest the time in her lengthy tomes when there is so much real literature I haven’t got to yet.

[Forget It (U2079353)]

Adam Curtis made a nice documentary about her influence.
Viewable here:

https://vimeo.com/groups/96331/videos/80799353

[Richard Barrett]

Yes yes YES! - that is the documentary to watch.

Seconded. I haven't actually read any of her books, but then I haven't read Mein Kampf either.

[eighthobstruction]

....that's done it now - I'll be dreaming Ayn Rand dreams tonight, and that's not nice....

[vinteuil]

Ayn Rand is a name which instantly repels me without having closely studied her life, thought or works.

"There are few surer signs of a poor reader, a poor thinker and an unpleasant person than a well-thumbed copy of Atlas Shrugged or The Fountainhead" is a completely biased opinion, with which I'm sorely tempted to agree.

... my thoughts exactly
.

[Mario]

....that's done it now - I'll be dreaming Ayn Rand dreams tonight, and that's not nice....

I’m really sorry about this – you almost make me regret having ever started this thread.

I’m stunned (already!) by the passion her name alone creates.

Apologies for mis-spelling – of course it’s Ayn Rand.

So far, only eighthobstruction and Belgrove have confirmed that they’ve read her books, and I shan’t give credence to others’ opinions (including Adam Curtis), until at least I’ve ensured that I’m not a fool in passing judgement on a book I haven’t read.

More important than matters of good and evil however, is the small matter of Man Utd kicking off in some forty minutes…

Mario

[Serial_Apologist]

I’m really sorry about this – you almost make me regret having ever started this thread.

I’m stunned (already!) by the passion her name alone creates.

Apologies for mis-spelling – of course it’s Ayn Rand.

So far, only eighthobstruction and Belgrove have confirmed that they’ve read her books, and I shan’t give credence to others’ opinions (including Adam Curtis), until at least I’ve ensured that I’m not a fool in passing judgement on a book I haven’t read.

More important than matters of good and evil however, is the small matter of Man Utd kicking off in some forty minutes…

Mario

Associates of Rand give personal testimony in the Curtis documentary - not all of it directed negatively towards her.

[eighthobstruction]

I’m really sorry about this – you almost make me regret having ever started this thread.

I’m stunned (already!) by the passion her name alone creates.

Apologies for mis-spelling – of course it’s Ayn Rand.

So far, only eighthobstruction and Belgrove have confirmed that they’ve read her books, and I shan’t give credence to others’ opinions (including Adam Curtis), until at least I’ve ensured that I’m not a fool in passing judgement on a book I haven’t read.

More important than matters of good and evil however, is the small matter of Man Utd kicking off in some forty minutes…

Mario

....Ah almost a double whammy with Fulham going one up....ha ha....but shall sleep free now....

....Never say sorry, it's a sign of weakness - John Wayne :Fort Apache....