The opinion of experts

[jayne lee wilson]

Likes/dislikes need no justification; judgements do.

And disparaging commentaries almost always tell you more about the disparager than the disparagee....

[Leinster Lass]

I've only just read this! Oi! If say I was an academic I'm speaking factually - that was my paid occupation. I don't think I would refer to myself 'an intellectual' as that's less easy to prove and some may disagree. But then, perhaps the rest of the world does use the word 'academic' with disparaging intent

I was referring to the use of academic as an adjective, not a noun.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Likes/dislikes need no justification; judgements do.

That's very profound and wise thought.

[Bryn]

Several contemporary critics (including, I think, Leopold) expressed the opinion that Mozart had made 'mistakes' in his compositions. People were in two camps - those who recognised him as a genius and those who heard his music as 'too difficult' or not what they were used to. And Mozart said he wrote some parts of his music for 'connoisseurs' and others for the general public, recognising that there were two distinct but overlapping audiences for his work. I don't think he went as far as Beethoven in saying (or thinking) that he was writing for future generations.

"Contrary to general belief, an artist is never ahead of his[sic] time but most people are far behind theirs."

Edgard Varèse

[french frank]

Likes/dislikes need no justification

No, they certainly don't need justification to anyone else, but they can stand examination, don't you think? Explaining at least to yourself, understanding what it is that you like and is absent or present that you dislike? On the other hand, you can't prevent others from judging you by what you like and dislike But that's their problem

"Contrary to general belief, an artist is never ahead of his[sic] time but most people are far behind theirs."

Edgard Varèse

Sounds a bit Frank Zappa-ish!

[Bryn]

Sounds a bit Frank Zappa-ish!

He was known to quote it. However, it was a reasonably well-known quote before he referred to it.

Here are a few more: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Edgard_Var%C3%A8se

[Serial_Apologist]

Agreed! And to paraphrase Stravinsky on Turangalila, some of them are happy simply to get through a great deal of paper and ink!

I remember from somewhere learning that Stravinsky thought Turangalîla to be deserving of the title "L'après-midi d'un super-faun"! He also thought Messiaen to be "jealous of the sound barrier".

[Richard Barrett]

Stravinsky thought Turangalîla to be deserving of the title "L'après-midi d'un super-faun"!

I've been told by someone who claimed to be an eyewitness that Adorno after the premiere of Boulez's Pli selon pli described it as "L'après-midi d'une vibraphone". I'm not sure I believe Teddy was capable of such wit however.

[ardcarp]

In the discussions above Beethoven and Britten have been mentioned. Britten apparently said 'The rot set in with Beethoven' [it came up in an undergrad exam paper where students were invited to 'discuss']. Stravinsky was scathing about Britten (not to mention many other of his contemporaries, including Messiaen) saying 'he did little to advance the compositional process', meaning exactly what?

Answering the original post, I would definitely avoid regarding composers, maybe especially the great ones, as being experts!

[Richard Barrett]

Stravinsky was scathing about Britten (not to mention many other of his contemporaries, including Messiaen) saying 'he did little to advance the compositional process', meaning exactly what?

Luckily, the actual author of many statements attributed to Stravinsky is still alive, so you could ask him!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Likes/dislikes need no justification; judgements do.

And disparaging commentaries almost always tell you more about the disparager than the disparagee....

I think a lot of philosophers have argued that it’s well worthwhile examining your likes and dislikes if only to yourself and for want of a better word justifying them . Although there is “no dispute over taste “ it’s not a bad idea to challenge your own tastes - occasionally you surprise yourself. And that in a nutshell is what’s wrong with the ‘if you liked that you’ll like this ‘ nature of streamed media.

[Bryn]

Luckily, the actual author of many statements attributed to Stravinsky is still alive, so you could ask him!

However, no attribution to Stravinsky regarding that particular comment was made. I merely expressed my own view, then proceeded to mention a Stravinsky 'quote' attributed to him by the late Alec Hill. That 'quote' does seem to have a Stravinskian tenor to it.

[jayne lee wilson]

In the discussions above Beethoven and Britten have been mentioned. Britten apparently said 'The rot set in with Beethoven' [it came up in an undergrad exam paper where students were invited to 'discuss']. Stravinsky was scathing about Britten (not to mention many other of his contemporaries, including Messiaen) saying 'he did little to advance the compositional process', meaning exactly what?

Answering the original post, I would definitely avoid regarding composers, maybe especially the great ones, as being experts!

See #54....

[jayne lee wilson]

I think a lot of philosophers have argued that it’s well worthwhile examining your likes and dislikes if only to yourself and for want of a better word justifying them . Although there is “no dispute over taste “ it’s not a bad idea to challenge your own tastes - occasionally you surprise yourself. And that in a nutshell is what’s wrong with the ‘if you liked that you’ll like this ‘ nature of streamed media.

I wouldn't deny that for a moment, in fact I would encourage it. My original distinction, which I've tried to impress upon listeners here many times, was to remember the crucial difference between:

I hate that music

and

I hate that awful music

So the crucial term in my original formulation is "need".... examining one's own subjective affinities is indeed desirable and fruitful; encouraging of self-insight.

[Richard Barrett]

I would definitely avoid regarding composers ... as being experts!

If composers aren't to be regarded as "experts" in matters related to composition, who is? Obviously a composer will have an individual and maybe idiosyncratic view, the result of his/her having developed and individuated their sensitivity to all aspects of music through the development and individuation of their own work, but their intimate experience of music from many different perspectives might be expected to give them insights that outside observers wouldn't have. And experts can disagree after all. I don't have to agree with Stravinsky to find his opinions of the music of other composers enlightening (although where Britten is concerned I do!).