The opinion of experts

[Mario]

May I ask a question please?

Older forum members will know that I’m trying really hard to widen my music knowledge.

I guess I’ve spent far too much of the past forty odd years listening to nothing but Beethoven – but oh boy do I love his music!

I take in as much as I can from far more knowledgeable, erudite and experienced individuals here, including of course professional musicians who can NEVER teach me too much.

But how much credence should I give their opinions?

French Frank’s views on Mozart’s masses recently, almost dissuaded me from listening to them and she admonished me correctly for that, stating quite accurately, that it was only her opinion.

Now, something strange has happened.

By pure serendipity, two separate events have occurred which have confused me. I discovered on youtube an extraordinary moment of Caballe holding a 16-second high B at the end of Don Carlo. I know not one single note of this opera, but this two-minute clip was electrifying. Blast! That’s ANOTHER opera to learn. The music score notes only a semibreve not nine semibreves as Ms Caballe sings, but anyway…

Only an hour or so later, I look under Composer and find dear ferneyhoughgeliebte stating that he has problems with Verdi.

Yes, yes, yes I know. Ignore what fhg has to say and listen to Don Carlo. But this man has demonstrated on this forum so many times in the past his huge knowledge of music, and if Verdi doesn’t do it for him, then why should I bother?

It really is difficult to decide what to get to know next – I don’t know all of Beethoven’s works, or all of Mozart’s or all of Bach’s or all of Schubert’s or all of…but you get my point. Should I concentrate on the great giants first?

Of course, I should not be swayed by others’ opinions by can I dare to ignore them?

I don’t know. I just don’t know.

Are others swayed one way or the other, and I don’t mean by critics’ views?

Mario

[oddoneout]

May I ask a question please?

Older forum members will know that I’m trying really hard to widen my music knowledge.

I guess I’ve spent far too much of the past forty odd years listening to nothing but Beethoven – but oh boy do I love his music!

I take in as much as I can from far more knowledgeable, erudite and experienced individuals here, including of course professional musicians who can NEVER teach me too much.

But how much credence should I give their opinions?

French Frank’s views on Mozart’s masses recently, almost dissuaded me from listening to them and she admonished me correctly for that, stating quite accurately, that it was only her opinion.

Now, something strange has happened.

By pure serendipity, two separate events have occurred which have confused me. I discovered on youtube an extraordinary moment of Caballe holding a 16-second high B at the end of Don Carlo. I know not one single note of this opera, but this two-minute clip was electrifying. Blast! That’s ANOTHER opera to learn. The music score notes only a semibreve not nine semibreves as Ms Caballe sings, but anyway…

Only an hour or so later, I look under Composer and find dear ferneyhoughgeliebte stating that he has problems with Verdi.

Yes, yes, yes I know. Ignore what fhg has to say and listen to Don Carlo. But this man has demonstrated on this forum so many times in the past his huge knowledge of music, and if Verdi doesn’t do it for him, then why should I bother?

It really is difficult to decide what to get to know next – I don’t know all of Beethoven’s works, or all of Mozart’s or all of Bach’s or all of Schubert’s or all of…but you get my point. Should I concentrate on the great giants first?

Of course, I should not be swayed by others’ opinions by can I dare to ignore them?

I don’t know. I just don’t know.

Are others swayed one way or the other, and I don’t mean by critics’ views?

Mario

By all means take note of opinions voiced by others if they are people whose views you respect - but it doesn't mean you have to agree. The main thing is to accept that you may feel differently and not bother too much. By the same token you may find some reassurance, having listened to something and not been taken with it, to find that someone you rate also doesn't like it! That "so it's not just me" feeling.
My wise Scottish granny, offering unfamiliar food, would say " I don't mind whether you like it or not but you have to try it before you decide". The other thing to bear in mind is that, just as with food, decisions made at one stage of your life may change later, so keeping an open mind is good. My own view in addition is not to beat yourself up about not liking or being able to 'get into' a piece of music or a composer just because you seem to be in a minority; there is too much music out there to choose from to continue expending time and effort on something that does nothing for you despite your best efforts. Different opinions are not automatically wrong opinions.

[Roslynmuse]

Follow your instincts!

If you like the sound of a bit of Verdi, go for it.

I have come to appreciate, if not love, what Verdi does, and occasionally - maybe with something familiar that I come by serendipitously, as I did with the final scene of Rigoletto a few months back - I feel something more than mere appreciation.

We're all different, and sometimes likes and dislikes (or neutrality) are impossible to figure out.

I guess I balance my listening between things I am familiar with, music that is new to me by familiar names, music that is new in every sense of the word. Sometimes I'm led to explore further, sometimes not.

[Leinster Lass]

Follow your instincts!

If you like the sound of a bit of Verdi, go for it.

I have come to appreciate, if not love, what Verdi does, and occasionally - maybe with something familiar that I come by serendipitously, as I did with the final scene of Rigoletto a few months back - I feel something more than mere appreciation.

We're all different, and sometimes likes and dislikes (or neutrality) are impossible to figure out.

I guess I balance my listening between things I am familiar with, music that is new to me by familiar names, music that is new in every sense of the word. Sometimes I'm led to explore further, sometimes not.

Same here!

[jayne lee wilson]

The most logical 19thC move from Beethoven would be Brahms, almost the only composer after Beethoven to excel equally in orchestral, chamber and instrumental repertoire, in a grand and greatly innovative continuation of the Classical Tradition, with a remarkably consistent flow of masterpieces throughout his oeuvre....

If you love Beethoven but don't know Brahms very well, I would envy the pleasures ahead of you.....a lifetime of adventure and reward....

[Leinster Lass]

The most logical 19thC move from Beethoven would be Brahms, almost the only composer after Beethoven to excel equally in orchestral, chamber and instrumental rep, with a remarkably consistent flow of masterpieces throughout his oeuvre....

If you love Beethoven but don't know Brahms very well, I would envy the pleasures ahead of you.....a lifetime of adventure and reward....

I would say that's VERY good advice! Try the wonderful Clarinet Quintet.

[ardcarp]

Follow your instincts!

...and above all, follow your heart. Listen to what you love. If you want to delve further, then by all means read what 'experts' have to say, but don't let them put you off!

[Roslynmuse]

...and above all, follow your heart. Listen to what you love. If you want to delve further, then by all means read what 'experts' have to say, but don't let them put you off!

[Edgy 2]

By all means take note of opinions voiced by others if they are people whose views you respect - but it doesn't mean you have to agree. The main thing is to accept that you may feel differently and not bother too much. By the same token you may find some reassurance, having listened to something and not been taken with it, to find that someone you rate also doesn't like it! That "so it's not just me" feeling.
My wise Scottish granny, offering unfamiliar food, would say " I don't mind whether you like it or not but you have to try it before you decide". The other thing to bear in mind is that, just as with food, decisions made at one stage of your life may change later, so keeping an open mind is good. My own view in addition is not to beat yourself up about not liking or being able to 'get into' a piece of music or a composer just because you seem to be in a minority; there is too much music out there to choose from to continue expending time and effort on something that does nothing for you despite your best efforts. Different opinions are not automatically wrong opinions.

Well said.

[jayne lee wilson]

I would be very wary of putting "experts" in quotes, in view of recent political and cultural events, and of course the infamous June 2016 quote....

[Leinster Lass]

I would be very wary of putting "experts" in quotes, in view of recent political and cultural events, and of course the infamous June 2016 quote....

I may possibly have been something of an 'expert' in the field of patent litigation, but when it comes to music I'm just an enthusiast who's willing and able to share her enthusiasms. I think 'specialist' is a safer and less presumptuous word than 'expert', in the same way that 'intellectual' is seen by some as a less disparaging term than 'academic'.

[Edgy 2]

Should I concentrate on the great giants first ?

Who decided which composers these are/were ?

Of cousre I enjoy listening to Beethoven and Brahms but I am passionately potty about the music of so many neglected or underrated (IMVHO) composers (especially British, Irish and Russian)
A lot of the time I'd certainly rather listen to a symphony by say Lloyd or Hoddinott than those two giants.

[Bryn]

. . . I think 'specialist' is a safer and less presumptuous word than 'expert', in the same way that 'intellectual' is seen by some as a less disparaging term than 'academic'.

Oh, I don't know. In China during the Yuan dynasty, and revived during the Cultural Revolution of the late 1960s to early 1970s, intellectuals were the "stinking ninth category", ranking just above beggars in the former era and at the bottom during the latter.

[Leinster Lass]

Who decided which composers these are/were ?

Of cousre I enjoy listening to Beethoven and Brahms but I am passionately potty about the music of so many neglected or underrated (IMVHO) composers (especially British, Irish and Russian)
A lot of the time I'd certainly rather listen to a symphony by say Lloyd or Hoddinott than those two giants.

I don't know much about Lloyd, but I would say that Alun Hoddinott is seriously underappreciated. My introduction to his music was a broadcast of a recording of 'Lanterne des Morts'.

[Dave2002]

I would say that's VERY good advice! Try the wonderful Clarinet Quintet.

Benjamin Britten, who claimed to not like most of Brahms's music, was at least one supposes a musical "competent" - maybe even an "expert". The clainet quintet was one work which he claimed was a masterpiece - or words to that effect.

So I'd say that it's OK to listen to "experts", but you don't have to agree with them. It might still be more fruitful to listen to the views of some of these people regarding classical music and which music to explore, than say Joe Bloggs you meet on a train or in a pub.