Last night, courtesy of Sky Arts, I watched (Sir) Simon Rattle and the Berlin Philharmonic play Beethoven's 4th symphony. I noticed that the last movement is marked 'Allegro ma non troppo'. Well, it was certainly 'allegro', but I'm not sure about the 'ma non troppo' - not that it was noticeably faster than other performances I've heard - and I wondered how much faster it would have to be in order to become just 'Allegro', let alone 'Presto' or 'Prestissimo'. I realise that interpretations can vary at conductors' discretion, but Beethoven presumably had his own view of how fast it should be?
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Indeed he did, and he provided metronome markings to make his intentions clear. Those metronome markings have all too often been ignored or treated with disdain by those who considered themselves to have better musical credentials than the composer. (Light blue touch paper . . . )Originally posted by rathfarnhamgirl View Post -
At the risk of diverging from the topic, the thread title reminds me of performance directions in the coda to the finale of Schumann's Piano Sonata No. 2 in G minor, Op. 22 which begins Prestissimo and, 27 bars later, is marked Immer schneller und schneller...Comment
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Out of interest, I've just played that last movement again and timed it to the best of my ability - it comes in at around 6'35". It didn't strike me as rushed at any point and it was certainly exhilarating!Comment
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Years ago I bought an LP of LvB 8 cond Hermann Scherchen, with a famed very fast finale. Without looking anything up, I recall a debate when it came out about whether it was a correct speed - IIRC he conducted it at the speed marked in the score - and speculation about LvB's metronome being faulty - et cetera et ceetera.... Any views on this Bryn?Originally posted by Bryn View PostComment
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Simply that there is a distinct lack of evidence for Beethoven's metronomes being faulty and that while his deafness got progressively worse over time, he was well aware of the pace of the swing of a clock pendulum. His acolyte Ries attested to Beethoven's annoyance when his music was played slower than he intended. That said, his metronome markings were intended to set the initial tempo of the movements they were appended to. It should also be noted that the metronome markings appended by Cerny to many works to which Beethoven did not offer one, are also on a par with those Beethoven provided for the Symphonies. Cerny well knew Beethovens views on tempi.Originally posted by kernelbogey View PostComment
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A friend of mine told me the story of two bassoonists who were the final candidates for a particular orchestral job. To decide between them the panel put a metronome between them and each had to play in turns that notorious solo in the finale a notch quicker than the last one. The first one to cave in was out of the race!Comment
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The first recording I ever heard of the opening movement of Mozart's Symphony no. 40 was Furtwangler's 1948 version - possibly the fastest ever. The second recording I heard was conducted by Josef Krips, and was very slow indeed, as was his later stereo recording. Rather than getting OCD about metronome markings (which don't exist in this instance) consider that both of these performances, though very different in tempi, work extremely well. There are so many other (greater?) factors that make a great performance.Comment
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Ever heard anyone try? I should imagine that some of the new generation(note no Caps) of ivory ticklers will certainly have a go in the relatively unlikely event that they ever add it to their repertoire. Shame because its a terrific piece.Originally posted by ahinton View PostComment
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