Another pointless arrangement/transcription?

[Leinster Lass]

Apparently Petroc's producer thought we might like to hear Mr Volodos's transcription of the 3rd movement of Tchaikowsky's 6th symphony. Well, it certainly gives the soloist plenty of opportunities to display his virtuosity and indeed his stamina - I felt increasingly that he was struggling towards the end. It was all I could do not to turn it off and reach for a CD of the orchestral version, since that was all that I could hear in my head anyway. This is not the first example of an arrangement or transcription that has left me wondering - Why?

[Dave2002]

Apparently Petroc's producer thought we might like to hear Mr Volodos's transcription of the 3rd movement of Tchaikowsky's 6th symphony. Well, it certainly gives the soloist plenty of opportunities to display his virtuosity and indeed his stamina - I felt increasingly that he was struggling towards the end. It was all I could do not to turn it off and reach for a CD of the orchestral version, since that was all that I could hear in my head anyway. This is not the first example of an arrangement or transcription that has left me wondering - Why?

I haven't heard it, so can't comment on the music or the performance yet. There could be several reasons why a musician wants to make a transcription. Some perhaps like to respond to compositional challenges, others to technical playing challenges. Some might just do it as a commercial "branding" exercise, or to increase revenue, either by sales of printed music, or recordings, and some might want to have a fairly well known piece as a programme filler or encore.

Having made the transcription, an artist then has the option of making it available to a wider public, and whether it then gains acceptance will depend on reactions to it. Some pieces are now often known better in transcription than the other way round - for example Mussorgsky's Pictures. There is probably less demand for transcriptions of orchestral pieces to keyboard or smaller groups nowadays, as relatively few people are able to play, and most people who want to become familiar with a work have many options for listening - something which wasn't possible in Tchaikovsky's time.

It seems that in this case if more people share your view, this will fade out as a distant memory, but others may find merit in it - for various reasons. Other pianists may like it, if it becomes more widely available.

When was it on? I shall try to listen to it.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Apparently Petroc's producer thought we might like to hear Mr Volodos's transcription of the 3rd movement of Tchaikowsky's 6th symphony. Well, it certainly gives the soloist plenty of opportunities to display his virtuosity and indeed his stamina - I felt increasingly that he was struggling towards the end. It was all I could do not to turn it off and reach for a CD of the orchestral version, since that was all that I could hear in my head anyway. This is not the first example of an arrangement or transcription that has left me wondering - Why?

I think it’s because the piano, being a percussive instrument , cannot hope to reproduce all the textures of an orchestra and it’s also not capable of all those subtle tuning adjustments that an orchestra can make . It can’t sustain notes without a pedal so early arrangers like Liszt used a lot of tremolo which is not my favourite piano sound- though some of his arranging is wonderful. Piano arrangements can just sound ugly and clangy. That said I love the Volodos arrangement of that movement - even got the CD. It’s unbelievably virtuosic - full of thirds and sixths played very fast. I’ve also got an earlier arrangement by a Russian pianist . I can’t think who he aimed it at - I can just about get through it 75 percent speed . Obviously Russia is full of excellent pianists !

[Leinster Lass]

I haven't heard it, so can't comment on the music or the performance yet. There could be several reasons why a musician wants to make a transcription. Some perhaps like to respond to compositional challenges, others to technical playing challenges. Some might just do it as a commercial "branding" exercise, or to increase revenue, either by sales of printed music, or recordings, and some might want to have a fairly well known piece as a programme filler or encore.

Having made the transcription, an artist then has the option of making it available to a wider public, and whether it then gains acceptance will depend on reactions to it. Some pieces are now often known better in transcription than the other way round - for example Mussorgsky's Pictures. There is probably less demand for transcriptions of orchestral pieces to keyboard or smaller groups nowadays, as relatively few people are able to play, and most people who want to become familiar with a work have many options for listening - something which wasn't possible in Tchaikovsky's time.

It seems that in this case if more people share your view, this will fade out as a distant memory, but others may find merit in it - for various reasons. Other pianists may like it, if it becomes more widely available.

When was it on? I shall try to listen to it.

About 8.15 this morning I think, i.e. about 1 hour 45 minutes in.

[Serial_Apologist]

Some pieces are now often known better in transcription than the other way round - for example Mussorgsky's Pictures.

Or perhaps in that case the other way around of the other way round???

There are some wonderful piano transcriptions, though often, I assume, they must be either unchanged or spruced up versions of the original pre-orchestrations, such as with the three movements from "Petruschka", which, for me, are at least as thrilling as the scored version - suspiciously, possibly, because of the sheer delight in what a piano plus more than capable pianist can do together.

[Bryn]

Dave2002's reference to Pictures . . . is doubly relevant. Ravel was one of those composers who tended to first compose at and for the piano, leaving the orchestration 'till later. Those of us here who have recently been introduced to the 1910 piano version of Daphnis et Chloe will recognise that this was no transcription but more a draft.

[Jonathan]

The arrangement that was played is actually by Samuil Feinberg and is fantastic. I'd like to hear the remainder of the symphony in this version.

[french frank]

Dave2002's reference to Pictures . . . is doubly relevant. Ravel was one of those composers who tended to first compose at and for the piano, leaving the orchestration 'till later. Those of us here who have recently been introduced to the 1910 piano version of Daphnis et Chloe will recognise that this was no transcription but more a draft.

Radio 3 has long had a 'policy' of playing transcriptions ("Hear the piece with new ears"). I think the Ravel is interesting, he being not only contemporary with the composer but also having had a particularly close relationship with him! I remember writing in to Morning on 3 once to "comment" on their airing of a Grieg (orchestral) transcription of Mozart.

As to 'Why?' apparently Grieg (and other teachers) often transcribed piano solo works for two pianos, one part played by the pupil, the other by the teacher.

[Bryn]

Radio 3 has long had a 'policy' of playing transcriptions ("Hear the piece with new ears"). I think the Ravel is interesting, he being not only contemporary with the composer but also having had a particularly close relationship with him! I remember writing in to Morning on 3 once to "comment" on their airing of a Grieg (orchestral) transcription of Mozart.

As to 'Why?' apparently Grieg (and other teachers) often transcribed piano solo works for two pianos, one part played by the pupil, the other by the teacher.

Ah, but what about Grieg's addition of a violin?

[Ein Heldenleben]

The arrangement that was played is actually by Samuil Feinberg and is fantastic. I'd like to hear the remainder of the symphony in this version.

I’d forgotten that Feinberg did the Volodos version - its a great arrangement . The one I have is by Donajowski who was ‘t Russian as I said earlier but a French / naturalised British arranger / composer / publisher. So there must have been many UK pianists in the early 20th century who could play it . It’s very difficult - above diploma level.

[ardcarp]

Radio 3 has long had a 'policy' of playing transcriptions

Can't wait for Messiaen's Turangalila-Symphonie for Andean nose-flute and sleigh bells.

[Richard Barrett]

The heyday of the piano transcription was when music had to be heard live or not at all, so it gave more people the opportunity to hear music they might seldom if ever come across in the concert hall or opera house, as well as the opportunity to show off pianistic and transcriptional skills. My favourite ones are Liszt's versions of Schubert and Paganini, because here Liszt was working with fine material (better than his own by far IMO!) and could indulge his textural imagination to the maximum degree. Much more recently there are Michael Finnissy's versions of Verdi, Gershwin and others. In general though I think the genre has outlived its original purpose. Having said that, you have sometimes to admire the skill with which an orchestral sound is suggested by the piano.

[Joseph K]

I have a disk of Finnissy's Gershwin pieces - very fine indeed.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I remember hearing Elgar's 1st symphony for the first time, and immediately borrowing the piano description from the Henry Watson Music Library in Manchester. I played through bits of it for hours on end. My mother complained that it was horrible, but I assured her it was my playing that was the problem.

On a related topic, Ferney, who detested the Ravel orchestration of "Pictures...", but revered the original, persuaded me to have a go at Mussorgsky's original. I still prefer it to be orchestrated, but I can see the value of hearing music in "black and white", original or transcribed.

[Dave2002]

Can't wait for Messiaen's Turangalila-Symphonie for Andean nose-flute and sleigh bells.

Here you go - https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE

I'm on to it! We need the bit about 23 minutes 10 seconds in. Can't find a VST for Andean nose-flute though, but some rather pathetic sleigh bells are available. 30 minutes 38 seconds in is also an iconic moment.

More seriously, I'd almost forgotten how good the Turangalila is, though I know people who don't like it much.