The Off-topic Thread

[Guest]

I might feel differently about “making the best of it” if I’d had a chance to do so personally and my services at my church had not been dispensed with in the absence of congregational singing

[Quilisma]

I might feel differently about “making the best of it” if I’d had a chance to do so personally and my services at my church had not been dispensed with in the absence of congregational singing

Well of course, and there are still many hundreds of places in that position, for all sorts of reasons. It must be particularly distressing for those who happen to be in relatively high-risk areas, and/or whose church buildings cannot easily be made to comply with COVID-19 guidelines, and/or where there has been little or no diocesan support, and of course even where public services with physical congregations have resumed (the current second lockdown notwithstanding) there are still very strict rules about the conditions under which singing is currently permitted, whereby under most conditions choirs consisting of volunteers still may not resume, and whereby congregations are not permitted to sing. I understand that you feel personally betrayed and personally attacked by those of us who have been permitted to resume, but you should be addressing your concerns to those who make the decisions about what should and should not currently be allowed, rather than to those of us who might seem to have got off relatively lightly. I'm afraid to say that the guidelines are not as arbitrary and vindictive as you might think: the virus is real, and it is a very unfortunate fact of life that some environments and circumstances can be made relatively secure with more ease than others. The intention of the current restrictions is to minimise the risk of transmission (and of contracting a very serious illness which is often fatal) rather than to persecute people.

[Andrew Butler]

In my case I was furloughed from March to October, thus saving the parish money - and the powers that be then decided money in the coffers was worth more than a DOM.

[Andrew Butler]

Well of course, and there are still many hundreds of places in that position, for all sorts of reasons. It must be particularly distressing for those who happen to be in relatively high-risk areas, and/or whose church buildings cannot easily be made to comply with COVID-19 guidelines, and/or where there has been little or no diocesan support, and of course even where public services with physical congregations have resumed (the current second lockdown notwithstanding) there are still very strict rules about the conditions under which singing is currently permitted, whereby under most conditions choirs consisting of volunteers still may not resume, and whereby congregations are not permitted to sing. I understand that you feel personally betrayed and personally attacked by those of us who have been permitted to resume, but you should be addressing your concerns to those who make the decisions about what should and should not currently be allowed, rather than to those of us who might seem to have got off relatively lightly. I'm afraid to say that the guidelines are not as arbitrary and vindictive as you might think: the virus is real, and it is a very unfortunate fact of life that some environments and circumstances can be made relatively secure with more ease than others. The intention of the current restrictions is to minimise the risk of transmission (and of contracting a very serious illness which is often fatal) rather than to persecute people.

No. Not betrayed or personally attacked at all. I simply like normal life and can’t be doing with “We’re all in it together” and “Half a loaf....” etc

[Quilisma]

No. Not betrayed or personally attacked at all. I simply like normal life and can’t be doing with “We’re all in it together” and “Half a loaf....” etc

Fair enough, I agree, and of course from January onwards everything gets immeasurably worse...

[mw963]

Slightly oblique to the title of the thread, but having French TV (proper French TV, not the international channels) here in England I can tell you that all the news broadcasts yesterday made much of - and sometimes led on - the protests from Catholic Churches on the national edict of a max of 30 worshippers, regardless of the size of the building. Versailles I think ignored it and (I think it was there) had five separate masses, each with 150 in the congregation. Another priest was interviewed, and declared that he wasn't there to count people in and out of the building, Many of the big churches and cathedrals flouted the numbers limit.

Such a fuss has been made in fact that the Church there has managed to get an order which requires the govt to "revoir sa copie", in other words take another look at the legislation.

Having had a real go at Radio 3 upthread, I might add that I haven't watched a single programme on BBC TV since February, but wouldn't be without French TV for all the world. Of course there's an awful lot of rubbish, but most nights there's something worth watching or recording, which is more than I can say about the main channels (BBC or commercial) here.

[oddoneout]

In my case I was furloughed from March to October, thus saving the parish money - and the powers that be then decided money in the coffers was worth more than a DOM.

I'm so sorry that the Covid fallout has hit you on so many levels beyond the obvious 'practical'(such as your job), and I do hope that you have people around to support you. I'm guessing that the church isn't an option in that respect given the decision it made and the wider implications of that to you?

[mw963]

I'm so sorry that the Covid fallout has hit you on so many levels beyond the obvious 'practical'(such as your job), and I do hope that you have people around to support you. I'm guessing that the church isn't an option in that respect given the decision it made and the wider implications of that to you?

Absolutely second that. I'm so sorry to hear about your treatment Andrew. Can quite understand (could already, but even more so now) how you feel.

[Andrew Butler]

Private teaching also badly hit. Have had to sell up and downsize.

[Quilisma]

Private teaching also badly hit. Have had to sell up and downsize.

I'm so terribly sorry about all this. Sadly this has been a very common occurrence, and sadly many employers have been showing very scant regard for those whom they have "let go". I do despair for the world, and particularly the country, in which we live, and it is all set to get immeasurably worse when the grim and ghastly consequences of the unmentionable finally come into force: not that those who have been responsible will particularly care, because they and their cronies, unlike the rest of us, will personally be just fine and will doubtless make a packet out of it all. Sometimes I feel a bit like an Old Testament prophet...

[Andrew Butler]

I'm so terribly sorry about all this. Sadly this has been a very common occurrence, and sadly many employers have been showing very scant regard for those whom they have "let go". I do despair for the world, and particularly the country, in which we live, and it is all set to get immeasurably worse when the grim and ghastly consequences of the unmentionable finally come into force: not that those who have been responsible will particularly care, because they and their cronies, unlike the rest of us, will personally be just fine and will doubtless make a packet out of it all. Sometimes I feel a bit like an Old Testament prophet...

Absolutely - that is it in a nutshell.

[Petrushka]

Andrew, I'm sorry to hear of your troubles and wish you well for the future.

On the grounds that once this is over, and we return to whatever passes for normal, your church will still need a DOM, would there be any mileage in being able to resume your post? Assuming, that is, that you would want to. This would need exceptional goodwill on both sides and I hope it proves to be possible. Not knowing the full picture one has to make some assumptions and I'm guessing that you were 'let go' at the end of October just as the second furlough scheme was announced.

[Andrew Butler]

I was indeed. I have moved 480 miles away so going back Isn’t an option!

[jonfan]

Having had a real go at Radio 3 upthread, I might add that I haven't watched a single programme on BBC TV since February, but wouldn't be without French TV for all the world. Of course there's an awful lot of rubbish, but most nights there's something worth watching or recording, which is more than I can say about the main channels (BBC or commercial) here.

I vowed the other day not to respond to MW but sadly I’ve failed miserably. If MW you don’t watch British TV how do you know it’s so bad? You have the advantage over me as I don’t speak French so their TV won’t be a natural ‘go to’ for me. Radio 3 is tons better nowadays with all the BBC orchestras holding their own on the world stage, knowledgeable presenters such as Klein, Trelawny and Skelly, plus the fantastic NGA scheme.
There I’ve said it; all IMHO and now I feel much better.

[mw963]

And we agree to disagree! My wife goes through the TV programme schedules and there's nothing that takes our fancy. And I read reviews of what's been out, most of which make me glad I didn't bother to watch.

Each to their own, but it's time that those of us who are happy to do without the BBC should be allowed to watch other channels without having to pay the licence fee. Even if I could prove to the relevant authorities that I only watched French TV I'd still be expected to stump up for the BBC.

I know I know, all these arguments have been rehearsed ad nauseam. But it (scrapping of the licence fee) will come eventually, particularly as one gathers anecdotally that the young are barely aware of the BBC .....

Ofcom's recent reports on the serious and continuing decline in the confidence people have in the BBC's impartiality, along with the continued failure to bring in young audiences, should make the BBC very very worried.