The Off-topic Thread

[oddoneout]

And we agree to disagree! My wife goes through the TV programme schedules and there's nothing that takes our fancy. And I read reviews of what's been out, most of which make me glad I didn't bother to watch.

Each to their own, but it's time that those of us who are happy to do without the BBC should be allowed to watch other channels without having to pay the licence fee. Even if I could prove to the relevant authorities that I only watched French TV I'd still be expected to stump up for the BBC.

I know I know, all these arguments have been rehearsed ad nauseam. But it (scrapping of the licence fee) will come eventually, particularly as one gathers anecdotally that the young are barely aware of the BBC .....

Ofcom's recent reports on the serious and continuing decline in the confidence people have in the BBC's impartiality, along with the continued failure to bring in young audiences, should make the BBC very very worried.

I thought the licence fee pays for other things, such as BBC radio, as well as TV, so it's only some of your money that's going to something you don't use?
My council tax is, even with the single person discount, a large chunk of my income, and helps to pay for things that in some cases I do not or cannot use, and I disagree with how that money is spent in some areas, but I accept that for access to the things that I do need or use. Where opportunities arise(eg consultations) or I feel strongly enough about a given issue I will engage with the council directly.

[mw963]

You are right about radio, and as it's impossible to put it behind a paywall some sort of residual funding would need to be put in place. TV is easy, Netflix etc manage it fine, but to ensure the BBC's universal coverage requirement, there would need to be a backup system in place - either terrestrial UHF or satellite, or both - with encryption, but that would be only necessary for an increasingly small proportion of the audience, as ADSL/fibre coverage improves. FWIW I'd propose a yearly reduction in the licence fee of £40 each year, with one more BBC channel each year going behind a paywall, so after a year at £120, a further year at £80, we'd end up with a £40 licence fee that would give access to one basic BBC TV channel, along with radio. The rest of the BBC channels would be funded by all those who are so apparently keen to retain the BBC. I'd probably then incorporate that £40 basic licence into general taxation.

Incidentally, I wouldn't miss BBC Radio either, I can't abide Radio 3, and the few times I've heard Radio 4 recently I've felt as though I've landed on a different planet.

As a matter of interest - jonfan and oddoneout - I take it you were aware that this forum was set up by French Frank precisely because of the decline in the quality of Radio 3 and its programmes....? I don't know for certain, but I got the impression that in the end French Frank became totally discouraged that anything could be improved, in spite of meeting with the Controller of Radio 3. My point being that I'm not the only one who thinks Radio 3 is awful, at least compared to what it was....

[jonfan]

I joined the forum because I take pleasure in BBC Radio 3 programmes. I think MW you’ve been reading too many right wing papers who think the BBC should be like them. It’s as impartial as it can be and goes out of its way to monitor its output. If the BBC became just a one tv channel, and maybe a few radio ones, who would fund all the orchestras, education facilities with sponsorship of new music and drama, to name a few areas? The Proms would be unrecognisable as the 8 week long world beating festival of classical music without the BBC sponsorship. I think we should be very careful what we wish for as with the licence fee all sorts of minority interests can be covered that a commercial organisation could not countenance.

[DracoM]

Is three a remote chance we could return to the stated theme of this thread?

[Petrushka]

Is three a remote chance we could return to the stated theme of this thread?

There would seem to be three threads going on at the same time here. Perhaps the off topic posts should be moved or deleted? On the other hand, perhaps the thread has run its course anyway.

[gurnemanz]

I don't know for certain, but I got the impression that in the end French Frank became totally discouraged that anything could be improved, in spite of meeting with the Controller of Radio 3. My point being that I'm not the only one who thinks Radio 3 is awful, at least compared to what it was....

Not sure if this post is meant as a provocation but I'll rise to the bait. I've been listening to Radio 3 since I was a teenager in the 60s, so I can compare, and do not subscribe to the "better in the good old days" argument, drearily trotted out here yet again, even if this message board was indeed set up specifically to propagate this point of view.

Today's listening so far:

Another worthwhile Composer of the Week edition (including a new Beethovenian byway which led me to check up on the Danish pianist and composer, Friedrich Daniel Rudolf Kuhlau, who had a drinking session with LvB and came off worse.)

Followed by stimluating, well presented and beautifully performed live recital with mezzo, Christine Rice and Julius Drake accompanying from the Wigmore which I was also able to watch on TV. The programme included far-from-routine repertoire with new discoveries to be made: Britten: Tit for Tat, Mussorgsky, Songs and Dances of Death and some less well-known Kurt Weill settings of Brecht and Cocteau. Especially, during these lockdown times where my wife and I can't get to Wigmore, a favourite venue, we have been very grateful to the BBC and Wigmore for these consistently excellent lunchtime concerts.

We had an another unusual and fascinatingly diverse selection for today's Afternoon Concert:

Arvo Pärt: Cantus in memoriam Benjamin Britten
Andrzej Panufnik: Bassoon Concerto
Benjamin Britten: Prelude and Fugue
Grazyna Bacewicz: Concerto for Strings
Jarosław Augustyniak (bassoon)
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
David Angus (conductor)

Arthur Benjamin: Conquest of Everest (suite)
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Rumon Gamba (conductor)

Vaughan Williams: A London Symphony
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Richard Hickox (conductor)

Lutoslawski: Chantefleurs et Chantefables
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Tadaaki Otaka (conductor)

Just finished: Bach Mass in F recorded in the Thomaskirche, Leipzig. Especially interesting for me. I had trained as a mod lang teacher and got my first job teaching English at Leipzig University in the 70s. I once met the concert's conductor, Gotthold Schwarz, when he was a young baritone, whom we saw often at the church and at the Gewandhaus. Now he is Bach's successor as the 17th Thomaskantor.

That's just this afternoon's awful programming. Some of us are easily pleased.

[DracoM]

Well, ref the thread: it seems pretty sad to me that in a time when live choir singing esp of ensembles with children leading is so threatened, we should use it to air personal grievances way off the thread topic, and plunge into fisticuffs, nostalgia and / or radio neuralgia.

[oddoneout]

Well, ref the thread: it seems pretty sad to me that in a time when live choir singing esp of ensembles with children leading is so threatened, we should use it to air personal grievances way off the thread topic, and plunge into fisticuffs, nostalgia and / or radio neuralgia.

Although there is an element of 'things ain't what they used to be' in both.
The likes of Sunday's broadcast does focus the mind not just on what Covid has taken away this year but what could be lost permanently.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Not sure if this post is meant as a provocation but I'll rise to the bait. I've been listening to Radio 3 since I was a teenager in the 60s, so I can compare, and do not subscribe to the "better in the good old days" argument, drearily trotted out here yet again, even if this message board was indeed set up specifically to propagate this point of view.

Today's listening so far:

Another worthwhile Composer of the Week edition (including a new Beethovenian byway which led me to check up on the Danish pianist and composer, Friedrich Daniel Rudolf Kuhlau, who had a drinking session with LvB and came off worse.)

Followed by stimluating, well presented and beautifully performed live recital with mezzo, Christine Rice and Julius Drake accompanying from the Wigmore which I was also able to watch on TV. The programme included far-from-routine repertoire with new discoveries to be made: Britten: Tit for Tat, Mussorgsky, Songs and Dances of Death and some less well-known Kurt Weill settings of Brecht and Cocteau. Especially, during these lockdown times where my wife and I can't get to Wigmore, a favourite venue, we have been very grateful to the BBC and Wigmore for these consistently excellent lunchtime concerts.

We had an another unusual and fascinatingly diverse selection for today's Afternoon Concert:

Arvo Pärt: Cantus in memoriam Benjamin Britten
Andrzej Panufnik: Bassoon Concerto
Benjamin Britten: Prelude and Fugue
Grazyna Bacewicz: Concerto for Strings
Jarosław Augustyniak (bassoon)
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
David Angus (conductor)

Arthur Benjamin: Conquest of Everest (suite)
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Rumon Gamba (conductor)

Vaughan Williams: A London Symphony
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Richard Hickox (conductor)

Lutoslawski: Chantefleurs et Chantefables
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Tadaaki Otaka (conductor)

Just finished: Bach Mass in F recorded in the Thomaskirche, Leipzig. Especially interesting for me. I had trained as a mod lang teacher and got my first job teaching English at Leipzig University in the 70s. I once met the concert's conductor, Gotthold Schwarz, when he was a young baritone, whom we saw often at the church and at the Gewandhaus. Now he is Bach's successor as the 17th Thomaskantor.

That's just this afternoon's awful programming. Some of us are easily pleased.

Often thought Gurnemanz the wisest Wagner character . You are right - the lunchtime concerts and Afternoon Concerts have been excellent recently often with the alternative benefit of the Wigmore stream - all praise to them for battling on .Following on from Composer of The Week they make up 5 hours of superb listening I would think unrivalled anywhere.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Not sure if this post is meant as a provocation but I'll rise to the bait. I've been listening to Radio 3 since I was a teenager in the 60s, so I can compare, and do not subscribe to the "better in the good old days" argument, drearily trotted out here yet again, even if this message board was indeed set up specifically to propagate this point of view.

Today's listening so far:

Another worthwhile Composer of the Week edition (including a new Beethovenian byway which led me to check up on the Danish pianist and composer, Friedrich Daniel Rudolf Kuhlau, who had a drinking session with LvB and came off worse.)

Followed by stimluating, well presented and beautifully performed live recital with mezzo, Christine Rice and Julius Drake accompanying from the Wigmore which I was also able to watch on TV. The programme included far-from-routine repertoire with new discoveries to be made: Britten: Tit for Tat, Mussorgsky, Songs and Dances of Death and some less well-known Kurt Weill settings of Brecht and Cocteau. Especially, during these lockdown times where my wife and I can't get to Wigmore, a favourite venue, we have been very grateful to the BBC and Wigmore for these consistently excellent lunchtime concerts.

We had an another unusual and fascinatingly diverse selection for today's Afternoon Concert:

Arvo Pärt: Cantus in memoriam Benjamin Britten
Andrzej Panufnik: Bassoon Concerto
Benjamin Britten: Prelude and Fugue
Grazyna Bacewicz: Concerto for Strings
Jarosław Augustyniak (bassoon)
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
David Angus (conductor)

Arthur Benjamin: Conquest of Everest (suite)
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Rumon Gamba (conductor)

Vaughan Williams: A London Symphony
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Richard Hickox (conductor)

Lutoslawski: Chantefleurs et Chantefables
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Tadaaki Otaka (conductor)

Just finished: Bach Mass in F recorded in the Thomaskirche, Leipzig. Especially interesting for me. I had trained as a mod lang teacher and got my first job teaching English at Leipzig University in the 70s. I once met the concert's conductor, Gotthold Schwarz, when he was a young baritone, whom we saw often at the church and at the Gewandhaus. Now he is Bach's successor as the 17th Thomaskantor.

That's just this afternoon's awful programming. Some of us are easily pleased.

Hmm!
From 12 noon until the opening seconds of In Tune, Radio 3 is very good indeed, and becomes so again from 7.30 p.m. all the way until 6.30 a.m. So in percentage terms Radio 3 still has much to commend it.
However, I would suggest that the style of presentation has plummeted, with 'Composer of the Week' being a refreshing exception.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Hmm!
From 12 noon until the opening seconds of In Tune, Radio 3 is very good indeed, and becomes so again from 7.30 p.m. all the way until 6.30 a.m. So in percentage terms Radio 3 still has much to commend it.
However, I would suggest that the style of presentation has plummeted, with 'Composer of the Week' being a refreshing exception.

The Advent Carol Service thread went wildly off topic, so I've moved the mixed alternative threads here. The result is something of a 'bleeding chunk', but at least it's gone some way to separating the wheat from the chaff.

[Edgy 2]

Not sure if this post is meant as a provocation but I'll rise to the bait. I've been listening to Radio 3 since I was a teenager in the 60s, so I can compare, and do not subscribe to the "better in the good old days" argument, drearily trotted out here yet again, even if this message board was indeed set up specifically to propagate this point of view.

Today's listening so far:

Another worthwhile Composer of the Week edition (including a new Beethovenian byway which led me to check up on the Danish pianist and composer, Friedrich Daniel Rudolf Kuhlau, who had a drinking session with LvB and came off worse.)

Followed by stimluating, well presented and beautifully performed live recital with mezzo, Christine Rice and Julius Drake accompanying from the Wigmore which I was also able to watch on TV. The programme included far-from-routine repertoire with new discoveries to be made: Britten: Tit for Tat, Mussorgsky, Songs and Dances of Death and some less well-known Kurt Weill settings of Brecht and Cocteau. Especially, during these lockdown times where my wife and I can't get to Wigmore, a favourite venue, we have been very grateful to the BBC and Wigmore for these consistently excellent lunchtime concerts.

We had an another unusual and fascinatingly diverse selection for today's Afternoon Concert:

Arvo Pärt: Cantus in memoriam Benjamin Britten
Andrzej Panufnik: Bassoon Concerto
Benjamin Britten: Prelude and Fugue
Grazyna Bacewicz: Concerto for Strings
Jarosław Augustyniak (bassoon)
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
David Angus (conductor)

Arthur Benjamin: Conquest of Everest (suite)
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Rumon Gamba (conductor)

Vaughan Williams: A London Symphony
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Richard Hickox (conductor)

Lutoslawski: Chantefleurs et Chantefables
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Tadaaki Otaka (conductor)

Just finished: Bach Mass in F recorded in the Thomaskirche, Leipzig. Especially interesting for me. I had trained as a mod lang teacher and got my first job teaching English at Leipzig University in the 70s. I once met the concert's conductor, Gotthold Schwarz, when he was a young baritone, whom we saw often at the church and at the Gewandhaus. Now he is Bach's successor as the 17th Thomaskantor.

That's just this afternoon's awful programming. Some of us are easily pleased.

I’m sure mw963’s post aren’t meant to be provocative,just expressing a view many of us on here share.
I haven’t completely given up on radio 3 but there are huge swathes of the schedule that are no go areas

[Roslynmuse]

I’m sure mw963’s post aren’t meant to be provocative,just expressing a view many of us on here share.
I haven’t completely given up on radio 3 but there are huge swathes of the schedule that are no go areas

For me, it's the presentation (verbal and conceptual) that is the main barrier (which honorable exceptions amongst the presenters). I find the mix and match lunchtime/afternoon concerts (when they are presented that way) to be a turn-off rather than a turn-on. I also wish that the evening concert could be followed by a real programme - not necessarily more music - rather than just filling in the long or short half hour before 10pm with what often seems like a random selection of pieces.

As an experiment, though, when lockdown started, I went to the genome archive and worked my way through a week's broadcasts from the week when I was first given a radio and had access to Radio 3. (Dec 1975.) There was a certain randomness to some of the programming then too, although I noted a greater commitment in that one week to 'hardcore' contemporary music broadcast at times other than very late at night; and (as many have noted) longer and more varied fare between 7 and 9am. We have musical riches now, we had riches then; but more than anything I miss the 'feel' of Radio 3 as it used to be, and we have to accept that those days are gone for good.

[french frank]

I also wish that the evening concert could be followed by a real programme - not necessarily more music

Yes, the most notable thing about gurnemanz's programmes was that they were all music. Radio 3 was never (and isn't supposed to be now) just 'another music station'. The interesting programmes on ideas/the arts with heavyweight contributors are gone. I wanted more intellectual stimulation than Radio 3 currently gives, but if that's not what the world wants, so be it. For music I have quite enough elsewhere without the "presentation" that mediates Radio 3's content.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Hmm!
From 12 noon until the opening seconds of In Tune, Radio 3 is very good indeed, and becomes so again from 7.30 p.m. all the way until 6.30 a.m. So in percentage terms Radio 3 still has much to commend it.
However, I would suggest that the style of presentation has plummeted, with 'Composer of the Week' being a refreshing exception.

They seem to have a strong team of presenters on both the Lunchtime Concert and Afternoon In Concert . I think Tom McKinney is particularly good.