Alternative communication tools for use during the pandemic

[Dave2002]

Some of us have "discovered" on-line tools for group discussion during the current pandemic, such as Zoom etc. Some groups are now using these quite extensively.

However, while these can be useful, and give a sense of community, other tools - such as boards like this one, or wikis - may be much more effective. Online "face to face" meetings are helpful to encourage group cohesion, a sense of common purpose, general support etc., but for detailed communications they may be less useful, or introduce other problems.

Tools like wikis and message boards are helpful, because they do not require users to be using them at the same time, and also they enable a useful record to be created (and/or modified) which can be beneficial for group working.

Are there now easy to use and cheap tools to enable one to set up a wiki or message board (like this), or is it still somewhat specialist? Cost, and security and privacy would be issues to consider, as well as hosting.

A decade ago there were a number of free or cheap wiki farms which could be used, but perhaps they never caught on.

[Dave2002]

There are many issues regarding group work and communication which could be addressed by tools other than online meeting tools, such as zoom.

[Serial_Apologist]

Given that face masks seem to make speech less audible, I have often resorted somewhat to speaking LOUDLY during the pandemic.

[vinteuil]

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https://images.app.goo.gl/pTRjg22U1CwDLH8A7

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[richardfinegold]

One thing I don’t like about Zoom is that it doesn’t encourage multiple conversations. My wife’s family does a biweekly Zoom call to get through the Pandemic, and in particular to stay in touch with her 90 old mother. Very nice, but normally if there are 10 or so people in a room, there are perhaps 3or 4 separate conversations. This whole thing is setup by one of my brother in laws who also moderates it and I find him barely tolerable for various reasons. In a real family gathering I will engage with him for a few minutes and then talk with family members that I like better, but these Zoom Calls are his show and even though I interact with the others twice a week I feel like I don’t really have a quality exchange. If for some reason another member and I wish to talk about something we do it outside the call.

[Dave2002]

One thing I don’t like about Zoom is that it doesn’t encourage multiple conversations. My wife’s family does a biweekly Zoom call to get through the Pandemic, and in particular to stay in touch with her 90 old mother. Very nice, but normally if there are 10 or so people in a room, there are perhaps 3or 4 separate conversations. This whole thing is setup by one of my brother in laws who also moderates it and I find him barely tolerable for various reasons. In a real family gathering I will engage with him for a few minutes and then talk with family members that I like better, but these Zoom Calls are his show and even though I interact with the others twice a week I feel like I don’t really have a quality exchange. If for some reason another member and I wish to talk about something we do it outside the call.

You could suggest either "breakout rooms", or just set up your own links with the people you'd prefer to "talk to" later on. It sounds as though you do partially adopt the last solution, but you need more time with the people you get on with better. Maybe "I've seen Zoom has breakout rooms. I don't know what they are. Could we try now?"

You could always get "someone" to phone you during those full-on meetings - "Oh - sorry - the boiler breakdown man has just arrived, must go", or some other important reason to leave the meetings, thus saving your time.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Our choir is getting 70 or so Zoom logins for weekly lockdown "rehearsals". We use breakout rooms - the convenor allocates us to a numbered group. So it works, but I don't know how to make it happen. Ours are set for, say 10.minutes and a warning appears there is a minute to go before we re-unite as a, whole.

[Dave2002]

I think a point is being missed here, but I'll try to clarify. I am involved in several groups, and we do participate in online events and meetings. It is not only the online presence - in which one can perhaps see and hear other participants which is required in order to provide a sense of community, but for some events more actions are required. Things happen between such online meetings, though not everyone is required for that. This veers more towards what might happen in a working environment.

There might be a need for a record or summary of what happened at an online event. Some people may be asked to update or create new documents or other artefacts, and such may be required to be shared before being circulated to the whole group. Some may be asked to provide new information, or presentations for future events.

To take the example of the choir - msg 7 - there might be a discussion of what pieces to sing. There might also be guidance about how to practice or make recordings - particularly if the choir wants to attempt to make a composite recording. There might be details of which versions of the music to perform, and there might even be added markings put in on the scores or parts which may need to be circulated - perhaps to a small group at first - and then later to the choir as a whole.

AFAIK Zoom only satisfies the face to face requirement, but hardly any of the behind the scenes stuff - which might also include details of the next event, schedules etc., and any changes which might be required at short notice.
One example we had was of a Zoom meeting which didn't work for various technical reasons, and it was rearranged. Someone had to phone round everyone who might have wanted to be at the first meeting to let them know at very short notice.

That was obviously a complete waste of one person's time and not a sensible way (generally) to deal with the problem. Some form of online "notice board" for problems like that would have avoided the need for such actions or at least minimised the problems.

Quite often I find that I can't get into Zoom meetings because someone sent out an invitation a week before, in an email, and then there is a follow up reminder. Almost invariably I don't know the person who sent out the invite, and then the reminder fails to mention or repeat the invite, so a search through vast amounts of email are then required in order to find the link. This is stupid, and could be avoided if there were known points for each group - these could be private - which would contain the invites. I'm sure I'm not the only person who discovers that some Zoom invites are sent out by a club chairman, and some by a club secretary, and I don't necessarily know the names and details of all these people. Some clubs/groups do publish the names and details of members on websites - or at least the committee details, but some are much more secretive - perhaps deliberately, or perhaps just accidentally. Conversely others are very open about the names and contact details of members, and committee members - which possibly exposes those people to some additional risks from internet criminals.

Some people use email to communicate but that is also often unwieldy, and has problems of its own, particularly if large documents are circulated.

In the past I have favoured wikis for this kind of purpose, but many people don't understand wikis. WIKIS ARE NOT WIKIPEDIA! but there's hardly any point in mentioning that, as most people take no notice.

Other problems with groups depend on the group size, and although technology can help, it can also get in the way. For example, try sending out a newsletter to 100 or more people - you might find that you are up against anti-spamming rules imposed by the ISPs in the hope of complying with the laws in different jurisdictions. It is ironic, of course, that the supposedly well meaning laws seem to be so easily circumvented by criminals and other scammers, yet people who are now discovering that they need to have a way to communicate with a sizeable group of people perfectly legitimately, are being presented with obstacles.

Working with groups of people in online mode presents many issues which few people think about - though some do, and even then there are divergences of opinion. Some are happy to trust the companies which are providing services, and others are not. Not everyone wants their email address or other contact details made visible to others, or stored on a server in some remote country. There are many issues.

So, it's not just Zoom - or Skype or ..... whatever .....!!

It takes time and effort to encourage cohesive group working, and the effort involved here is often misunderstood or underplayed. Different people behave differently, and this can also be a problem.

[Pulcinella]

Dave
Don't you run an online calendar that you could put your Zoom meetings (with necessary codes) in as soon as you're given the details?
Seems a simple and obvious solution to one of your problems; it's what I do with choir committee meetings.
You could even use pen/pencil and paper if you have an office diary!

[Dave2002]

Dave
Don't you run an online calendar that you could put your Zoom meetings (with necessary codes) in as soon as you're given the details?
Seems a simple and obvious solution to one of your problems; it's what I do with choir committee meetings.
You could even use pen/pencil and paper if you have an office diary!

Answer: No!

I do not believe in putting up all the details of my life - even if benign - on sites the data of which is often held in other countries.

I do most things with pencil and paper.

Re the online Zoom meetings - these often come in emails which get mixed up with the rest, or if they are sent out to a group with CC (not recommended ...!!!) then the spam filters on my email will put them into junk mail, where they will not be found.

OK - you'll say I'm paranoid, but I do not believe in needlessly storing data in ways (online) which would allow others who have absolutely nothing to do with me, to access details of my life.

[Roslynmuse]

One working group I belong to meets by Zoom every week but also regularly updates files, adds documents etc via a Microsoft Teams folder so we are kept up-to-date without the necessity of endless meetings. Teams is pretty useless in my experience for phone calls etc but this shared data base seems to tick the boxes that you mention. It certainly makes file sharing easy. It is probably as secure as sending the same information by email would be. As far as keeping track of Zoom invitations, if you don't want to use an online calendar then why not simply create a new folder for your inbox and put Zoom invitations in there as they come in?

[Dave2002]

In the interests of further investigations, I have now bought into a web hosting service - at low cost - and will try to get something set up for use with groups I am involved with.

In the meantime, anyone else who wants to follow up some of the ideas mentioned might like to look at some of the following:

https://helpiewp.com/wiki-software/

https://www.siteground.co.uk/compare_best_wiki.htm

https://info.tiki.org/HomePage

https://tiddlywiki.com/

https://www.wix.com/blog/2020/05/best-forum-software

https://www.techradar.com/uk/web-hosting/best-web-hosting-service-websites

https://www.bluehost.com/

https://www.top10bestwebsitehosting.co.uk/

Note that there are many issues to consider, including:

cost, privacy, protected data, protecting the identities and contact details of anyone using sites, etc., etc. .....

Some of the options may be convenient, but put user's data and details up on sites which are publicly accessible.

Any one individual may be happy with that, but it could cause problems with groups - not all members might agree.

[Dave2002]

As far as keeping track of Zoom invitations, if you don't want to use an online calendar then why not simply create a new folder for your inbox and put Zoom invitations in there as they come in?

That makes sense as long as one realises that invites have been received. Knowing that there might be a Zoom meeting on a particular day isn't so helpful if one doesn't know who is sending out the invites, and when they have been sent, and to which email address, and whether any invites have perhaps gone into a Junk mail box.

Otherwise your suggestion is very sound - thank you.

As more groups are now using Zoom, many people are getting faster at getting into it, but there are still some who struggle. There are nearly always problems with people who can't hear audio, or who leave their own audio on unmuted, etc. which almost always creates at least one problem incident in a session, and a waste of at least 5 minutes - often more - while people try to get into the meeting, and maybe some are in a waiting room managed by a host.

I note your comment about Teams, which I have not used myself, though I know people who use many such tools - and some in a much more secure environment than the basic Zoom service provides. Zoom is not approved for some applications.

Has anyone here tried the Google offering(s)?