The future of classical music / arts stations

[Bryn]

I stand to be corrected here - many people have been listening to R3/The Third for longer than I have. My impression is that the breakfast time programme has always been the least demanding, 'easing' into the day. But I don't remember until recent times that it had extracts from longer works. The pieces tended to be shorter (no 40-minute symphonies), but not the 5-6 minute average that we have now.

I'd take issue with gurnemanz on one thing he said ("friends and relations who do like that approach and who I do not write off as part of the "dumbed down" contingent"): writing off people as dumbed down is not at all what many of us are saying. Programmes aimed at children, which are made 'accessible' for their age group, does not imply that the children are considered a 'dumbed down contingent' by adults. The dissatisfaction is at the consequent loss of something more 'advanced' (for want of a better term) for listeners who want that. Attracting a broader, general audience has entailed removing/reducing/putting on late at night content that will be off-putting to that specific audience.

At one time 9 a.m.used to be the time Composer of the Week was broadcast, with a repeat in the early evening, IIRC. The morning CotW was followed by CD Masters, a decidedly up-market forerunner of Essential Classics.

[french frank]

At one time 9 a.m.used to be the time Composer of the Week was broadcast, with a repeat in the early evening, IIRC. The morning CotW was followed by CD Masters, a decidedly up-market forerunner of Essential Classics.

You're right - and not that long ago. It was Nicholas Kenyon who moved it to midday. Roger Wright moved it back to 9am, but then fairly quickly put it back 12 noon. The thinking was that CotW was not suitable for the 'broader audience' they were trying to attract to the radio peak listening time i.e. people turned off when they'd heard the earlier programme - or switched to another station.

[Bryn]

. . . The thinking was that CotW was not suitable for the 'broader audience' they were trying to attract to the radio peak listening time i.e. people turned off when they'd heard the earlier programme - or switched to another station.

Or arrived at work?

[Leinster Lass]

At one time 9 a.m.used to be the time Composer of the Week was broadcast, with a repeat in the early evening, IIRC. The morning CotW was followed by CD Masters, a decidedly up-market forerunner of Essential Classics.

Thank you - I think it was CD Masters that I was referring to.

[cloughie]

At one time 9 a.m.used to be the time Composer of the Week was broadcast, with a repeat in the early evening, IIRC. The morning CotW was followed by CD Masters, a decidedly up-market forerunner of Essential Classics.

An excellent programme which should have remained and extended to 3 hours.

[french frank]

Or arrived at work?

Possibly, though Wright's quick about-face suggests that the turn-off was the programme. I think I read about the Kenyon change in The Envy of the World. Fiddling about with the morning scheduling was - I read in one of their commissioning briefs, about 'hanging on to the audience' which was inclined to change stations at the recognised 'switch-over point' junction of 9am.

[Serial_Apologist]

Indeed Anton... I have only just recently started to appreciate the treasure trove that is (are?) Sounds, having recently acquired some decent headphones, and so a whole new dimension to listening.

I can't remember the detail but some broadcasters (I think) are complaining (like, offically) about Sounds which they consider unfair competition (or it may be Apple/Spotify et al).

While welcoming the coming of Sounds and the BBC iplayer, (and other network equivalents), another part of me which always derived a feeling of togetherness from knowing others would be listening to the same things as me, and at the same time, regrets that modern-day pressures on time and place preclude that communitarian experience. These are the pressures of longer working hours we were always told would be alleviated by new technologies resulting in a shortening of the working day, but, of course, you had to be an apologist for the status quo to excuse the false predictions which took no account of the reality - namely that it would be competitiveness and profitability that would be served, rather than in the interests of greater leisure time, and the BBC has to deliver impartiality when it comes to such matters. So maybe the BBC is not to be blamed for joining the Gadarene rush to keep the masses away from anything in the cultural realm that might lead to its questioning, apart from the odd investigatory programmes that come on Radio 4. But, gone is the time when you might contact your friends to say, "tune in now - there's a really interesting programme about to start"; or "did you hear that programme just now? Well it went into this and this, and I can summarize for you before it goes out of my head". Because our "own" time, now, is when we really are on our own.

[french frank]

But, gone is the time when you might contact your friends to say, "tune in now - there's a really interesting programme about to start"; or "did you hear that programme just now? Well it went into this and this, and I can summarize for you before it goes out of my head". Because our "own" time, now, is when we really are on our own.

A point I toyed with making: there is an irony in the general agreement that Sounds is a great contribution that the BBC has made: but Sounds is just another part of On Demand entertainment, along with YouTube, Spotify, Qobuz - and your own CDs. It is narrowcasting, replacing the broadcast medium of linear radio.

[Padraig]

Thank you - I think it was CD Masters that I was referring to.

Just to say, from across the border, Dia dhuit rfg. You have made interesting remarks and touched on topics frequently discussed here. I have 'been there and done that'. All I will say now is that I still enjoy Radio 3, though I don't listen as much, and I hope you will too.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Possibly, though Wright's quick about-face suggests that the turn-off was the programme. I think I read about the Kenyon change in The Envy of the World. Fiddling about with the morning scheduling was - I read in one of their commissioning briefs, about 'hanging on to the audience' which was inclined to change stations at the recognised 'switch-over point' junction of 9am.

That’s part of the problem. Obviously I can’t speak for others, but for me, this changeover is the problem. In order to smooth the join, we are treated to Suzy Klein at 8.55 a.m., previewing what we’re going to hear for the next eternity. It’s as off-putting as the BBC could make it. I teach for the off switch there and then, and don’t turn it on again before noon.

[Leinster Lass]

That’s part of the problem. Obviously I can’t speak for others, but for me, this changeover is the problem. In order to smooth the join, we are treated to Suzy Klein at 8.55 a.m., previewing what we’re going to hear for the next eternity. It’s as off-putting as the BBC could make it. I teach for the off switch there and then, and don’t turn it on again before noon.

That's exactly how I feel! I occasionally listen to the Lunchtime Concert if I'm at home (which is obviously going to be the rule rather than the exception for a while ) and recently watched a series of lunchtime concerts from Wigmore Hall.
Very interesting comments about 'narrowcasting', which is probably going to increase as we listen to what we want when we want where we want. There are so many adverts for BBC Sounds that one starts to wonder whether they actually want us to listen live!
I suppose it could be argued that the increasingly fragmentary nature of some programmes reflects the increasing fragmentation of society and the shortening of (some) people's attention span - trends which I'm old-fashioned enough to regret.

[kernelbogey]

Very interesting comments about 'narrowcasting', which is probably going to increase as we listen to what we want when we want where we want. There are so many adverts for BBC Sounds that one starts to wonder whether they actually want us to listen live!

I was struck by FF's 'narrowcasting' idea, and am still mulling what I think about that.

(Mounts soapbox.) The best of R3 for me, as I may have mentioned here before , is Through the Night. It is created entirely from live music from all corners of Europe , and has minimal, though well-informed, announcements and back announcements. Last night, in a bad spell of insomnia, I listened to a fine Mahler 2 from Bergen conducted by Edward Gardner from last Thursday's TTN. If that is 'narrowcasting', it certainly gets my vote at 3 a.m.

[french frank]

I was struck by FF's 'narrowcasting' idea, and am still mulling what I think about that.

Not my invention. Broadcasting is the kind of 'scattergun' concept of scooping up a broad range of as many 'live' listeners/viewers as possible. Narrowcasting has been used more recently for a smaller self-selecting audience, especially for what individuals are able to listen to at time of their own choosing e.g. podcasts. "Broadcast is for 1-to-many communication, narrowcast is for 1-to-1." I thought of that when S_A was talking about the 'shared experience' of people listening simultaneously to linear radio/television programmes.

Last night, in a bad spell of insomnia, I listened to a fine Mahler 2 from Bergen conducted by Edward Gardner from last Thursday's TTN. If that is 'narrowcasting', it certainly gets my vote at 3 a.m.

If you were listening to it 'live', I think it's technically still broadcasting. Apparently overnight lorry-drivers also listen to TTN

[Bryn]

Not my invention. Broadcasting is the kind of 'scattergun' concept of scooping up a broad range of as many 'live' listeners/viewers as possible. Narrowcasting has been used more recently for a smaller self-selecting audience, especially for what individuals are able to listen to at time of their own choosing e.g. podcasts. "Broadcast is for 1-to-many communication, narrowcast is for 1-to-1." I thought of that when S_A was talking about the 'shared experience' of people listening simultaneously to linear radio/television programmes. . . .

Indeed, the term has been used several times on this very forum, the first occasion being back in December 2010.

http://www.for3.org/forums/search.php?searchid=6263199

[gurnemanz]

I was struck by FF's 'narrowcasting' idea, and am still mulling what I think about that.

(Mounts soapbox.) The best of R3 for me, as I may have mentioned here before , is Through the Night.

It would indeed be very sad if a playlist show of pre-recorded music broadcast when most people are asleep is the best the BBC has to offer. It would surely suit many people, me for instance, if they did something like RAI, France Musique, YLE Finland, all of which I tune to regularly, which run 24/7 playlist channels of classical music alongside channels which consist of a palette of individual programme segments of music, including live concert transmissions, as well as some talk input in the form of opinion, analysis, arts news, interviews, reviews etc, + some drama, poetry and non-classical music.