Recyling and lies

[Dave2002]

This article about recyling if true, which I suspect it is, suggests that major big companies don't care about the environment, and have known for years that plastic couldn't realistically be recycled, but presented "fake" ideas in order to maximise the profits for the plastics industry.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692090/how-big-oil-misled-the-public-into-believing-plastic-would-be-recycled

I was obviously naive enough to think that some recycling was serious.

[LMcD]

This article about recyling if true, which I suspect it is, suggests that major big companies don't care about the environment, and have known for years that plastic couldn't realistically be recycled, but presented "fake" ideas in order to maximise the profits for the plastics industry.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692090/how-big-oil-misled-the-public-into-believing-plastic-would-be-recycled

I was obviously naive enough to think that some recycling was serious.

I've long suspected that, regardless of what I put in which bin, it all goes into landfill or an incinerator.

[french frank]

have known for years that plastic couldn't realistically be recycled

I'm sure there are fraudsters, particularly companies who charge people to take away their waste plastic etc for 'recycling'. But 'plastic couldn't realistically be recycled'? Not sure what that means. Some plastic can be recycled.

I don't know why Bristol council would be engaged in fraud and lying:

"Plastic packaging is sent to Corby in Northamptonshire.

Plastic is baled and sent for reprocessing, where the plastic is broken down into flakes and then cleaned. These are melted down and moulded into new plastic shapes.

Plastic bottles, tubs and trays are made into items such as bollards, recycling boxes, compost bins, drainage pipes, and park benches. They can also be made into new food and drinks packaging and even fleece jackets."

https://www.bristol.gov.uk/bins-recycling/where-your-recycling-goes

https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/conservation/issues/recycling-reality.htm

[Bryn]

I'm sure there are fraudsters, particularly companies who charge people to take away their waste plastic etc for 'recycling'. But 'plastic couldn't realistically be recycled'? Not sure what that means. Some plastic can be recycled.

I don't know why Bristol council would be engaged in fraud and lying:

"Plastic packaging is sent to Corby in Northamptonshire.

Plastic is baled and sent for reprocessing, where the plastic is broken down into flakes and then cleaned. These are melted down and moulded into new plastic shapes.

Plastic bottles, tubs and trays are made into items such as bollards, recycling boxes, compost bins, drainage pipes, and park benches. They can also be made into new food and drinks packaging and even fleece jackets."

https://www.bristol.gov.uk/bins-recycling/where-your-recycling-goes

https://science.howstuffworks.com/en...ng-reality.htm

Indeed. I think most councils make careful choices regarding which plastics they advise are suitable for placing in the recycling bin, and which the not set up to recycle. I think it worth familiarising oneself with the various symbols impressed in/on different plastic packaging materials.:

https://www.acmeplastics.com/content/your-guide-to-plastic-recycling-symbols/

[Dave2002]

Indeed. I think most councils make careful choices regarding which plastics they advise are suitable for placing in the recycling bin, and which the not set up to recycle. I think it worth familiarising oneself with the various symbols impressed in/on different plastic packaging materials.:

https://www.acmeplastics.com/content...cling-symbols/

Have you followed the article mentioned in post #1. That made specific comments about labels as well as other matters. The suggestion is that the labels are more or less completely irrelevant.

[Bryn]

Have you followed the article mentioned in post #1. That made specific comments about labels as well as other matters. The suggestion is that the labels are more or less completely irrelevant.

I did. I also took particular note that it was dealing with the situation in the USA (where else? It is USA's National Public Radio, after all), not that in UK local councils and UK based plastics recycling plants. Where I live, te plastics recycling is administered by re3: https://re3.fccenvironment.co.uk/plastic-recycling/

[oddoneout]

The lack of a coherent workable national recycling policy in this country, which would address the problem from beginning to end, is, in my view the root cause of most of the problem. Local councils having to reach recycling targets or face penalties, doesn't favour action to reduce waste in the first place, even if they had the funding to run such initiatives, and also leads to marked differences in the way waste is dealt with - postcode lottery. That creates confusion and resentment, which affects compliance.
There have been some fascinating TV documentaries recently about the way waste is and can be dealt with in the UK and it is clear that there are better ways of doing things. A recent one was a look at an enormous operation that reconditions, repairs and strips household electricals(eg computers, TVs, kitchen appliances) for resale - I seem to remember that Holland was one country mentioned as a good market for reconditioned white goods such as fridges... However while we continue with the current piecemeal approach, and reliance on voluntary codes for manufacturers and retailers to reduce waste being created in the first place, we are not going to see any progress.
The Chinese decision to limit the types of plastic waste it accepts will affect those areas which up to now have taken most types of plastic (my council has always limited what plastic can go in the recycling bin, which again causes confusion for those coming from other areas with different rules) and will have a considerable impact. In this neck of the woods the shipping of waste to Holland for burning will be affected by their decision to impose a tax, which will add several £millions to the current cost. It would have caused a budget problem in 'normal' times but with the covid-19 costs exacerbate that pressure.

[richardfinegold]

In my family we have several “recycling nazis” that will absolutely go off on anyone that they think is violating the precepts and paying insufficient attention to what goes where. We used to have up to 6 recycling containers for the various categories and for years our rubbish removal people changed it to two only. Some of these relations live in other areas that still require multiple bins and when they stay with us are incredulous that our requirement is so minimal by comparison. Can it be that our local pick up knows that all of those painfully sorted containers are being dumped in a common landfill and not being recycled?

[Bryn]

In my family we have several “recycling nazis” that will absolutely go off on anyone that they think is violating the precepts and paying insufficient attention to what goes where. We used to have up to 6 recycling containers for the various categories and for years our rubbish removal people changed it to two only. Some of these relations live in other areas that still require multiple bins and when they stay with us are incredulous that our requirement is so minimal by comparison. Can it be that our local pick up knows that all of those painfully sorted containers are being dumped in a common landfill and not being recycled?

Just possibly it is because those reducing the number of bins got fed up with many people putting the wrong plastics in the wrong bins, necessitating the sorting at the depot that the multi-bin approach was intended to avoid. Here they provide just one recycling bin, for suitable plastics, paper, card, and 'tin cans' (no glass) with all sorting being done at the depot. The planned introduction a food-waste bins has been put back to next spring.

[Dave2002]

We lived in Sweden for a while. There were quite a few different categories of waste, and we put material into different bins. On one occasion mrs d noticed a lorry arrive, and everything - from all the bins - was put into the truck. That may have been a one off - and maybe there were other occasions when sorting and recycling were carried out "sensibly", but obviously not on that one.

Re Bryn's point about recycling (msg 6) being US oriented - I don't think that is relevant - I'm sure that similar considerations apply in the UK.
However, I may have got things wrong. Years ago renewable energy wasn't seen as viable, and now for various reasons it seems to be becoming more acceptable and maybe an economic and useful approach to electricity generation. Things that didn't seem viable in one era may become feasible and desirable in later times. While the article I linked to at the start of the thread suggested that recycling was always a cynical and commercial approach to keeping a market for plastic, it may now actually be the case that some recycling works, and does ameliorate some problems. This needs further examination.

[Bryn]

. . . Re Bryn's point about recycling (msg 6) being US oriented - I don't think that is relevant - I'm sure that similar considerations apply in the UK.
However, I may have got things wrong. Years ago renewable energy wasn't seen as viable, and now for various reasons it seems to be becoming more acceptable and maybe an economic and useful approach to electricity generation. Things that didn't seem viable in one era may become feasible and desirable in later times. While the article I linked to at the start of the thread suggested that recycling was always a cynical and commercial approach to keeping a market for plastic, it may now actually be the case that some recycling works, and does ameliorate some problems. This needs further examination.

Back at the start of the 1970s, John Cage, in his Diary: How to Improve the World (You Will Only Make Matters Worse) Continued, 1970-71 made reference tp Buckminster Fuller's proposed "Pollution Exploitation Corporation".

Pollution is nothing but resources we're not harvesting. We allow them to disperse because we've been ignorant of their value. [RBF]

I am not entirely sure RBF fully considered the relevant implications of the Second Law of Thermodynamic in his proposed solution.

[Serial_Apologist]

Well, sadly I have to report on having given up on my once relatively successful campaign to get the other flat holders to separate recyclables from unrecyclables by pinning beautifully handwritten notices to the bin area perimeter fence, since some person(s) has or have been blatantly flouting the regulations. We only have two types of bin - blue for recyclables, green for the rest - with the optional brown bins for garden waste not chosen since we have a compost heap - so it should be easy enough to comply, assuming those able to afford living as either tenants or leaseholders here have the assumed intelligence to match! In the early days the council would post every flat reminders of what goes where, with a warning that if not complied with, the refuse collectors could, er, refuse to empty the relevant bin(s) My surmise is that they have given up on this, and every bin gets emptied whether or not containing the correct items. But this could be because of the huge extra amounts which have been filling all the bins each week since lockdown - we still enjoy weekly collections in Southwark - probably accounted for by extra throw-outs resulting from working from home, as well as the closure of the local recycling centre, which has only recently re-opened, and requires advance booking prior to visiting! and you have to wait in a queue!!! No wonder there's fly-tipping everywhere - what else do they expect???

[oddoneout]

Well, sadly I have to report on having given up on my once relatively successful campaign to get the other flat holders to separate recyclables from unrecyclables by pinning beautifully handwritten notices to the bin area perimeter fence, since some person(s) has or have been blatantly flouting the regulations. We only have two types of bin - blue for recyclables, green for the rest - with the optional brown bins for garden waste not chosen since we have a compost heap - so it should be easy enough to comply, assuming those able to afford living as either tenants or leaseholders here have the assumed intelligence to match! In the early days the council would post every flat reminders of what goes where, with a warning that if not complied with, the refuse collectors could, er, refuse to empty the relevant bin(s) My surmise is that they have given up on this, and every bin gets emptied whether or not containing the correct items. But this could be because of the huge extra amounts which have been filling all the bins each week since lockdown - we still enjoy weekly collections in Southwark - probably accounted for by extra throw-outs resulting from working from home, as well as the closure of the local recycling centre, which has only recently re-opened, and requires advance booking prior to visiting! and you have to wait in a queue!!! No wonder there's fly-tipping everywhere - what else do they expect???

Councils seem good at denying any connection between restrictions at disposal facilities and increases in fly-tipping. In this part of the world, being rural, it has what I think is a rather nasty side to it in that much, possibly most, of the dumping occurs on private land - fields, tracks, gateways etc are easily accessible - and so the council doesn't have to pay to clear it up...
Our tip did open up some time ago and there were restrictions and queues, but I believe things have eased up since, and I think more categories of waste are now being taken in.

[alywin]

What really gets my goat is the "yin and yang" arrow symbols you get on a lot of toiletries packaging. They go round in a circle, so they must mean "recyclable", right? Wrong! They mean "this is not recyclable, but we're making a financial contribution towards recycling to assuage our guilt instead" :(