National Trust

[teamsaint]

It seems to be all kicking off, because of, or under cover of covid.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEAC6pxfIGoync8jkK3Ekh9cqFggEKg4IACoGCAowl6p7MN-zCTCOvRU?hl=en-GB&gl=GB&ceid=GB%3Aen

Thoughts ?

I think, briefly, I would see the choice of elitism against wider access as a false binary.
My personal business experience is that there is a relentless drive to centralise and homogenise the Trust’s retail offer, probably fairly typical of how the organisation’s overall direction of travel.

Be interested to hear what people think.

[Cockney Sparrow]

I sent an indignant email on Friday. Perhaps they had a lot of pushback.

On Friday the Chiief Exec gave an impressive interview on Newsnight and did the same on Saturday (I think on the Today programme in the morning). I have to concede she came over as competent and frank (a lot more than Government ministers). She was definite these moves would not be happening without the Covid losses and that she had capped the loss of curator posts to protect those roles to some degree. Also made the point that the £BIllions on their accounts do not provide funds to sustain the losses as they are mostly endowments or donations dedicated to particular properties so can't be used for NT wide running costs.

I've many years of membership I've rarely bought anything in NT shops (maybe plants, sometimes) - mostly bland items I can easily do without.

[teamsaint]

I sent an indignant email on Friday. Perhaps they had a lot of pushback.

On Friday the Chiief Exec gave an impressive interview on Newsnight and did the same on Saturday (I think on the Today programme in the morning). I have to concede she came over as competent and frank (a lot more than Government ministers). She was definite these moves would not be happening without the Covid losses and that she had capped the loss of curator posts to protect those roles to some degree. Also made the point that the £BIllions on their accounts do not provide funds to sustain the losses as they are mostly endowments or donations dedicated to particular properties so can't be used for NT wide running costs.

I've many years of membership I've rarely bought anything in NT shops (maybe plants, sometimes) - mostly bland items I can easily do without.

I know for certain that the Trust see their retail as trading at an equivalent level to John Lewis. Unfortunately, they don’t in general trust local managers , especially in smaller sites, to stock items that are of site specific interest, resulting too often in a very bland, and over priced offer.

Their income this year might drmatically increase if they got their act together and got some extra sites and more retail and catering open. Avebury shop, which is very profitable, has been inexplicably closed until weds this week, even though the car park and catering have been open. I think they have been disastrously over cautious, and taking it out on staff is unacceptable. Furlough money will have helped them enormously.
Timed tickets for sites like Stourhead, surely completely unnecessary at this stage, must be hitting customer numbers hard.

[Pulcinella]

I haven't been following the story that closely, so might be mistaken, but I think one of the proposals (or are they already decisions made?) was the dismissal of specialists in preservation (of art, furniture, etc); if so, that would be a great loss indeed, even if stuff is put in storage rather than being on display.

[cloughie]

I haven't been following the story that closely, so might be mistaken, but I think one of the proposals (or are they already decisions made?) was the dismissal of specialists in preservation (of art, furniture, etc); if so, that would be a great loss indeed, even if stuff is put in storage rather than being on display.

That maybe part of the current cost cutting which has led to the loss of 1200 jobs.

[Old Grumpy]

I would not pay much attention to Telegraph readers who consider it the beginning of the end when NT shops stop selling NT ties!

I do however admit that I am concerned by some of the rest of the article.

OG

[Pulcinella]

That maybe part of the current cost cutting which has led to the loss of 1200 jobs.

Yes: I should have read the article through first: conservationists included in redundancies.

The trust is facing a loss of £200m, and is set to make 1,200 people – including specialist conservationists and curators – redundant.

[Serial_Apologist]

As the grandson of an antiquarian I was brought up on beautiful old things. Grandpa insisted that anything up to Victorian was antique, but not after 1837 - but he as almost an antique himself when he died in 1969 - an exact contemporary of Maurice Ravel. What that early inculcation induced in me was a love of old things - there is something of the Betjamen in me, I have to admit. All radicalisation did for me in respect for historical artifacts was to root understanding of the stately houses conserved by the National Trust (and later English Heritage) in class; it never led to hatred of the craftsmanship displayed in the ornate antiques, and indeed it shoudn't have, given that the obvious love that went into their making, as in the case of church furnishings and decorations, was one of the few outlets afforded the rural pre-working class for creative expression, later to be undermined through alienated capitalist mass production. Were wealth to be more equably distributed, and mechanisation turned to allowing greater time for creative relaxation, then more beauty would be evidenced in everyday domestic furnishings which people would be motivated to fashion for themselves and their family communities. And in terms of aesthetic and quality such furnishings could benefit from the designs handed down from the rich and privileged, in the same way that modern housing need not be of the cheapened Jerrybuilt sub-Bauhaus kinds represented by Grenfell and other 1960s tower blocks, or today's Noddyland housing estates along the M4 corridor. For me it is in this light that for all this, and not only for the good work it does for landscape management and promoting agri-sustainability, as an institution the National Trust is a beneficial presence and, along with its loyal and often longserving workforce, should not just be allowed to wither and die, in the name of elitism or anything else..

[oddoneout]

I know for certain that the Trust see their retail as trading at an equivalent level to John Lewis. Unfortunately, they don’t in general trust local managers , especially in smaller sites, to stock items that are of site specific interest, resulting too often in a very bland, and over priced offer.

Their income this year might drmatically increase if they got their act together and got some extra sites and more retail and catering open. Avebury shop, which is very profitable, has been inexplicably closed until weds this week, even though the car park and catering have been open. I think they have been disastrously over cautious, and taking it out on staff is unacceptable. Furlough money will have helped them enormously.
Timed tickets for sites like Stourhead, surely completely unnecessary at this stage, must be hitting customer numbers hard.

Opening the catering and retail outlets can be a tortuous procedure, especially where the floor space is limited. When my place of work opened 6 weeks ago the cafe stayed closed and the shop was by request only. The cafe opened this week with a very limited offering(and very little indoor seating) only once the entrance and exit routes to enable a one way system and various other matters had been inspected and signed off. The shop is now open for 2 hours in the afternoon, one 'group' at a time only, because of the combined limitations of little floorspace , no through route, and conflict with processing incoming visitors in the same space. In both cases the problem was lack of space coupled with very limited options to change things around - Listed buildings are not always as flexible as one might wish...
Another factor is that if volunteers are a significant part of the retail and catering workforce then they may be of limited availability due age/health limitations, so a lack of bodies to man the facilities.
All Front of House where I work are paid staff which has made it easier to have enough people to open - although even so several have not been able to come back due to the same limitations, we are nearly all over 60, some well over, and a couple have caring responsibilities.

[oddoneout]

Yes: I should have read the article through first: conservationists included in redundancies.

The trust is facing a loss of £200m, and is set to make 1,200 people – including specialist conservationists and curators – redundant.

This was being discussed at work today and it turned out that a new P/T member of staff is(soon to be was) also a part time NT conservator, who confirmed what we had read.

[Constantbee]

Be interested to hear what people think.

NT has lots of properties in our area, the nearest of which would probably be Rievaulx Terraces, a lovely spot with a fine aspect over Rievaulx Abbey itself (English Heritage and not NT for some reason). I've been waiting for a suitable opportunity to visit so I can take some photos but it's been shut since lockdown. Can't see what the problem is with social distancing on a woodland walk in a site that size, but there are obviously issues I'm not aware of. Staff redundancies perhaps?

So, it's a debate I keep an eye on, although the idea of the NT raising shackels is not new. I vaguely remember friction between the NT and local residents back in the 1980's. In those days the argument was about over zealous NT conservation policies: the NT historical purists versus the pragmatists who lived near the properties, typically things like the right material to use for re-thatching rooves. The NT considered it desirable to restore properties as sensitively as possible. Local people seemed to set on this as something to argue about. Some people will pick on anything, mind you.

With that in mind, I'd say this will probably blow over - eventually. They seem to have a high turnover of senior management, from what I hear. Lack of coherent vision for the future of the organisation perhaps?

[teamsaint]

NT has lots of properties in our area, the nearest of which would probably be Rievaulx Terraces, a lovely spot with a fine aspect over Rievaulx Abbey itself (English Heritage and not NT for some reason). I've been waiting for a suitable opportunity to visit so I can take some photos but it's been shut since lockdown. Can't see what the problem is with social distancing on a woodland walk in a site that size, but there are obviously issues I'm not aware of. Staff redundancies perhaps?

So, it's a debate I keep an eye on, although the idea of the NT raising shackels is not new. I vaguely remember friction between the NT and local residents back in the 1980's. In those days the argument was about over zealous NT conservation policies: the NT historical purists versus the pragmatists who lived near the properties, typically things like the right material to use for re-thatching rooves. The NT considered it desirable to restore properties as sensitively as possible. Local people seemed to set on this as something to argue about. Some people will pick on anything, mind you.

With that in mind, I'd say this will probably blow over - eventually. They seem to have a high turnover of senior management, from what I hear. Lack of coherent vision for the future of the organisation perhaps?

Some , all actually, of the sites I have visited ( about 8 I think) have quite a few staff and volunteers engaged in applying the timed ticket system. If a shortage if volunteers is an issue, I’d suggest scrapping the timed tickets, have sensible queuing systems in place, and use those staff elsewhere.
NT would do far better to try where possible to encourage more visitors in, rather than the current unnecessary rationing system which must be putting many people off.
I’m afraid that some people high up are rather too fond of control, and systems that enable it.
Some of the staff I have spoken to have no idea why they couldn’t have reopened earlier, quite safely, and profitably.

[oddoneout]

Some , all actually, of the sites I have visited ( about 8 I think) have quite a few staff and volunteers engaged in applying the timed ticket system. If a shortage if volunteers is an issue, I’d suggest scrapping the timed tickets, have sensible queuing systems in place, and use those staff elsewhere.
NT would do far better to try where possible to encourage more visitors in, rather than the current unnecessary rationing system which must be putting many people off.
I’m afraid that some people high up are rather too fond of control, and systems that enable it.
Some of the staff I have spoken to have no idea why they couldn’t have reopened earlier, quite safely, and profitably.

Perhaps I can contribute some input to this. Although not a NT site, the issues around opening to the public are similar, being an historic site not intended for a 'visitor experience'. A suitable route around the site had to be agreed and signed off, taking into account allowing for adequate ventilation, a workable one way system, avoiding closed spaces - basically ensuring free movement of people at the appropriate distances. Then there is provision of sanitising stations and waste bins, location of toilet facilities that also meet distancing requirements and can be cleaned to the required schedules, cleaning schedules for spaces that public will make contact with(handrails, information boards, seats, and picnic benches being the main ones at my site). The rebooked/timed entry system is a way of controlling numbers such that adequate distances can be maintained and also so that contact details can be collected. At work even with such a system there have been occasions when two or three(different) groups have ended up bunched together all wanting to get into the building at the same time and we have to queue manage and then monitor movement once inside the building. The cleaning schedules are heavy on staff requirements, even with only limited spaces and toilets open and all the touchy-feely items removed, as it is a large site, and now some more buildings on site have been opened up now that we've had a chance to see how the initial arrangements worked. As this is a council run site so very risk averse management my perspective is very much from what could be seen as an extreme end of the spectrum. The staff are well aware that things are very different in many other settings( a fair came to town shortly after we opened...) but on the plus side the feedback from visitors has been overwhelmingly supportive and appreciative, even if there have been initial irritations at needing to book timed slots(especially among pass holders, used to dropping in when they want, and those wanting to meet up with others) the most common comment being that they felt safe on site with the visible cleaning arrangements and the one way system to facilitate distancing. The opening last week of the catering side, albeit in much reduced form, has been positive, but that took a great deal of thought, hence the delay, not just for public safety but also the staff in what is a tiny kitchen space at the best of times.
If the NT staff you spoke to did not know what was involved in opening their site that comes down to poor management. The wadge of 'safe systems of working' paperwork we had on the first day back and the run through of the daily procedures made it perfectly clear to us what the processes were that led to the arrangements we had in place, and updates prior to opening had kept us informed of the stages the CC were working through in order to be sure they could open safely. We might not agree with all of it, but the choice is to open with that regime or not open at all (the case for most of the sites in the service which cannot be made safe) then we'll take opening and getting back to earning(especially for the relief team who didn't qualify for furlough), and doing what we are good at which is giving the visitors an excellent day out.

[cloughie]

Some , all actually, of the sites I have visited ( about 8 I think) have quite a few staff and volunteers engaged in applying the timed ticket system. If a shortage if volunteers is an issue, I’d suggest scrapping the timed tickets, have sensible queuing systems in place, and use those staff elsewhere.
NT would do far better to try where possible to encourage more visitors in, rather than the current unnecessary rationing system which must be putting many people off.
I’m afraid that some people high up are rather too fond of control, and systems that enable it.
Some of the staff I have spoken to have no idea why they couldn’t have reopened earlier, quite safely, and profitably.

I have found no problem with the timed system, and it is necessary, as is need to limit numbers. The absence of it would in Cornwall lead to very long queues which would benefit no-one. The question of volunteers is also tricky as the NT is making staff redundant they cannot substitute volunteers to carry out tasks which were done by employed staff. Pre-booking and planning your life in advance seems to be a part of CV19, and the unpredictability of the weather does not help this!

[teamsaint]

I have found no problem with the timed system, and it is necessary, as is need to limit numbers. The absence of it would in Cornwall lead to very long queues which would benefit no-one. The question of volunteers is also tricky as the NT is making staff redundant they cannot substitute volunteers to carry out tasks which were done by employed staff. Pre-booking and planning your life in advance seems to be a part of CV19, and the unpredictability of the weather does not help this!

The timed system can work alright, but it inevitably going to put off some paying customers.
Not sure either why getting rid of it will inevitably lead to long queues. Numbers can still be limited, if they absolutely have to in perfectly safe outdoor space, by clicking people in and out. Advice on quiet times might help too.

It really is nonsense to need all this in what are almost completely safe environments.

Ever greater control of our activity seems to be a function of life in the covid era, and that is a thoroughly bad thing.