Help musicians

[Bella Kemp]

My apologies if this has been posted before, or if it is against the rules of the forum, but the plight of many of our fellow musicians is severe and if there are any of us who might be able to support those in need they might consider helping out. I think that perhaps I speak for most forumistas when I say that music is our life and our joy and a donation to express our thanks to those who have enriched our lives beyond measure would be a great thing.

https://www.helpmusicians.org.uk/support-our-work/make-a-donation

[BBMmk2]

Thank you for this. Yes these are very distracted times(Thomas Morley) indeed. Any help that’s needed for musicians, will be greatly thanked for, I am sure.

[Serial_Apologist]

I am receiving a number of emailed appeals for voluntary donations from various bodies I've put my name to lists of contacts in the past at the moment - mainly within the jazz realm. People will back whichever area of music etc they feel most strongly about, and, without wishing to sound too selfish, it may be advisable to wait before jumping to make the best choice you feel... but not too long, of course.

[MrGongGong]

My apologies if this has been posted before, or if it is against the rules of the forum, but the plight of many of our fellow musicians is severe and if there are any of us who might be able to support those in need they might consider helping out. I think that perhaps I speak for most forumistas when I say that music is our life and our joy and a donation to express our thanks to those who have enriched our lives beyond measure would be a great thing.

https://www.helpmusicians.org.uk/sup...ake-a-donation

[Dave2002]

I am happy to help musicians, where possible, and where it makes sense to do so. However, I don't consider that musicians are the only people deserving of support.

I noticed that Spitfire Audio are making a cut down version of their BBC SO sampled sound system available for £49 (or free - for anyone who wants to simply try it, or plead poverty) - this is called Discover.

One concern I have about this kind of initiative, hinted at in another thread (http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...604#post792604) is that this might not help the members of the BBC SO so much, and in the long term it's possible that replacing real live musicians with sampled sounds will in fact reduce the musical talent pool in the UK and other countries. On the other hand, it may prove a big stimulus, and give longer term benefits, which is what I hope.

I think that Spitfire are doing a great job, and I don't think that there are any intentions to undermine musicians, either working for the BBC or elsewhere, but there is always a danger that new technology developments may bring both benefits and problems - "laws of unintended consequences".

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/bbc-symphony-orchestra-discover

https://youtu.be/oxpg0JNVfgE

Music teachers might like to have a copy of Discover, or even the Core or Pro versions, and they could work collaboratively with their students using such tools.

It's certainly possible that this will help members of the BBC SO, if everyone who feels it's worth £49 or more for the sample sets buys in to this.

[MrGongGong]

Dave

Of all the musicians who are needing help at the moment
I would suggest that those with salaried jobs are maybe NOT the ones we should be thinking of first

The whole "sampling is killing music" thing is largely nonsense.
The MU used to have a "Keep Music Live" campaign which was partly (PARTLY) based on the idea that recording would "kill" live music.
However, given that a huge number of MU members earnt much more from recrording than doing gigs it seems to have faded away.

If you want to help musicians ... buy their stuff from the musicians themselves and go to hear live music when it's possible to do so.

[Dave2002]

Dave

Of all the musicians who are needing help at the moment
I would suggest that those with salaried jobs are maybe NOT the ones we should be thinking of first

The whole "sampling is killing music" thing is largely nonsense.
The MU used to have a "Keep Music Live" campaign which was partly (PARTLY) based on the idea that recording would "kill" live music.
However, given that a huge number of MU members earnt much more from recording than doing gigs it seems to have faded away.

If you want to help musicians ... buy their stuff from the musicians themselves and go to hear live music when it's possible to do so.

I really don't know whether sampling could "kill music" or not - it's like asking whether computers will displace jobs - which is true, but then new jobs appear. Similarly with cars way back at the beginning of the 20th Century - some jobs went, and a whole lot of others sprang up.

There is a slight difference between orchestras providing samples for recording, and recordings for broadcast, streaming or CDs etc. Sampling means that the musicians may not be required ever again - a slight exaggeration - but I think you can understand what I mean. Who needs Vengerov or Benedetti if a guy with a keyboard in an office can construct a recorded "performance" which many people might think (probably wrongly) is just as good?

I don't think there are any live concerts in most places in the UK right now. I went to a flute recital just before we all got shut in. I do indeed buy "stuff" - usually CDs - from musicians when I go to concerts.

Re the salaried jobs - musicians - I wouldn't be so sure that they are safe. One area where people are salaried, but their jobs are deinitely not safe, is in schools - music teachers are very likely to be the first to be shown the door if budgets are tight - which is usually the case. I have close hand knowledge of this.

Another thing which hasn't been thought about too much so far, except perhaps by those most likely to be concerned - is the age factor for employed workers. A 25-45 year old musician or teacher is probably more likely to get a job in the next year or two, than a 50 year old with similar qualifications and ability. Many employers won't just furlough such people - well - they will do that as they'll get a rebate from HMG - but when the budget is considered next they may very well decide to give their older staff a "helping hand" out of the door - and I don't mean a golden retirement package either. That spells a real disaster for a whole lot of people and families who may rely on them, as ageism takes control again. Those people will be "too old" to work (get jobs), but too young to retire, or take benefits.

[Serial_Apologist]

I really don't know whether sampling could "kill music" or not - it's like asking whether computers will displace jobs - which is true, but then new jobs appear. Similarly with cars way back at the beginning of the 20th Century - some jobs went, and a whole lot of others sprang up.

There is a slight difference between orchestras providing samples for recording, and recordings for broadcast, streaming or CDs etc. Sampling means that the musicians may not be required ever again - a slight exaggeration - but I think you can understand what I mean. Who needs Vengerov or Benedetti if a guy with a keyboard in an office can construct a recorded "performance" which many people might think (probably wrongly) is just as good?

I don't think there are any live concerts in most places in the UK right now. I went to a flute recital just before we all got shut in. I do indeed buy "stuff" - usually CDs - from musicians when I go to concerts.

Re the salaried jobs - musicians - I wouldn't be so sure that they are safe. One area where people are salaried, but their jobs are deinitely not safe, is in schools - music teachers are very likely to be the first to be shown the door if budgets are tight - which is usually the case. I have close hand knowledge of this.

Another thing which hasn't been thought about too much so far, except perhaps by those most likely to be concerned - is the age factor for employed workers. A 25-45 year old musician or teacher is probably more likely to get a job in the next year or two, than a 50 year old with similar qualifications and ability. Many employers won't just furlough such people - well - they will do that as they'll get a rebate from HMG - but when the budget is considered next they may very well decide to give their older staff a "helping hand" out of the door - and I don't mean a golden retirement package either. That spells a real disaster for a whole lot of people and families who may rely on them, as ageism takes control again. Those people will be "too old" to work (get jobs), but too young to retire, or take benefits.

I would venture to imagine that no orchestral performance made up of samples would pass muster as being as good as a genuinely live one, even given the veracity apparent from actual live performances stitched together from post-rehearsed edits. Less to do with an imperfectability in existing or future technology, more the fact that, unlike eg VR, where the eye can be deceived into thinking that Martian landscape to be real, the ear - as is easily demonstrated from noting nuances in listened to spoken words one had not noticed when watching the actual thing live - being more sensitive to detail than when the attention is divided when simultanouely watching.

[Dave2002]

I would venture to imagine that no orchestral performance made up of samples would pass muster as being as good as a genuinely live one, even given the veracity apparent from actual live performances stitched together from post-rehearsed edits. Less to do with an imperfectability in existing or future technology, more the fact that, unlike eg VR, where the eye can be deceived into thinking that Martian landscape to be real, the ear - as is easily demonstrated from noting nuances in listened to spoken words one had not noticed when watching the actual thing live - being more sensitive to detail than when the attention is divided when simultanouely watching.

https://soundcloud.com/noteperformer...rmer-holst-the

[MrGongGong]

I would venture to imagine that no orchestral performance made up of samples would pass muster as being as good as a genuinely live one, even given the veracity apparent from actual live performances stitched together from post-rehearsed edits. Less to do with an imperfectability in existing or future technology, more the fact that, unlike eg VR, where the eye can be deceived into thinking that Martian landscape to be real, the ear - as is easily demonstrated from noting nuances in listened to spoken words one had not noticed when watching the actual thing live - being more sensitive to detail than when the attention is divided when simultanouely watching.

Indeed

This

but I think you can understand what I mean. Who needs Vengerov or Benedetti if a guy with a keyboard in an office can construct a recorded "performance" which many people might think (probably wrongly) is just as good?

Is an old chestnut
and a red herring at best

Do I really have to post the picture of the pipe again ?

Re the salaried jobs - musicians - I wouldn't be so sure that they are safe.

NO jobs are "safe"
BUT those with salaried jobs are currently being paid (rather well considering... NOT that I'm saying it's a bad thing.....) 80%
those without are being paid 0%

[Dave2002]

Some really lovely music in the Gramophone Lockdown Gala performance - https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classic...e-charity-gala

[Bella Kemp]

Some really lovely music in the Gramophone Lockdown Gala performance - https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classic...e-charity-gala

Wonderful!

[Zucchini]

It’s much easier to make donations if you’ve already spent the money.

The Chipping Campden Music Festival (President: Paul Lewis, Patron of Education: Julian Lloyd Webber) was due to open last Monday. Chipping Campden is one of the most beautiful villages in the Cotswolds. I’m lucky enough to live there and the Festival is adored by attendees and artists alike. As expected, everyone was offered a full refund. Artists engaged included:

Mahan Esfahani, The Jerusalem Quartet, Vox Luminis, Paul Lewis, Steven Isserlis, Mary Bevan, La Serenissima, Concertgebouw Camerata (sponsored by Bernard & Patricia Haitink), Endellion Quartet, Richard Goode (recital + masterclass), Sarah Connolly. And the CC Festival Academy Orchestra, 50/50 pro/am led by Ruth Rogers (also soloist), conductor Thomas Hull with Goode, Rogers, Isserlis + a full programme of lunchtime concerts.

Charlie Bennett the Festival’s founder and driving force wrote to say that he was going to try to reimburse all artists costs to date and half of the Academy Orchestra’s engagement fees. Would we consider helping? We chose to leave the cost of our season tickets with him. My wife said the money was well spent and we’d be saving on suppers and drinks.

Charlie said he was astonished to find that that the money donated was sufficient to pay every professional member of the CCFAO in full and 50% or more of all engaged artists’ fees! And there's income from gift aid to be sorted. It must amount to a lot of money.

The heartfelt letters of thanks to Charlie (and a gorgeous thank you video from Ruth Rogers sitting in her garden) and those of us who coughed up have been very moving. I’m sure Charlie will have shed a tear or two.

But it’s quite clear that the Chipping Campden Festival has treated the musicians proud. Most venues/festivals are claiming force-majeure and offering no compensation/goodwill payments for cancellations.

[Old Grumpy]

It’s much easier to make donations if you’ve already spent the money.

The Chipping Campden Music Festival (President: Paul Lewis, Patron of Education: Julian Lloyd Webber) was due to open last Monday. Chipping Campden is one of the most beautiful villages in the Cotswolds. I’m lucky enough to live there and the Festival is adored by attendees and artists alike. As expected, everyone was offered a full refund. Artists engaged included:

Mahan Esfahani, The Jerusalem Quartet, Vox Luminis, Paul Lewis, Steven Isserlis, Mary Bevan, La Serenissima, Concertgebouw Camerata (sponsored by Bernard & Patricia Haitink), Endellion Quartet, Richard Goode (recital + masterclass), Sarah Connolly. And the CC Festival Academy Orchestra, 50/50 pro/am led by Ruth Rogers (also soloist), conductor Thomas Hull with Goode, Rogers, Isserlis + a full programme of lunchtime concerts.

Charlie Bennett the Festival’s founder and driving force wrote to say that he was going to try to reimburse all artists costs to date and half of the Academy Orchestra’s engagement fees. Would we consider helping? We chose to leave the cost of our season tickets with him. My wife said the money was well spent and we’d be saving on suppers and drinks.

Charlie says he was astounded to find that that the money donated was sufficient to pay every professional member of the CCFAO in full and 50% or more of all engaged artists’ fees! It must amount to a lot of money.

The heartfelt letters of thanks to Charlie (and a gorgeous thank you video from Ruth Rogers sitting in her garden) and those of us who coughed up have been very moving. I’m sure Charlie will have shed a tear or two.

But it’s quite clear that the Chipping Campden Festival has treated the musicians proud. Most venues/festivals are claiming force-majeure and offering no compensation/goodwill payments for cancellations.

Well, it rather depends how much cash the festival organisers have, I would have thought. This, in turn depends on how many ticket purchasers have taken a refund, and how much.

OG