Have you got your Boris letter?

[Count Boso]

I have this slightly melancholy feeling that Covid-19 and Mr Johnson's illness could be his 'Falklands War' - the event which boosts a PM's ratings as people have kinder feelings to him than before. And, rightly, people who say they'll 'hold a party if he dies' are being slapped down. How can anyone be working for the betterment of humanity if they've lost their own?

My main wish for a post-illness Boris is that he emerges a better person.

[MrGongGong]

My main wish for a post-illness Boris is that he emerges a better person.

I share your hope
but feel that it will be a forlorn one

(I can't remember if I posted this here already so apologies if I have..)

When David Cameron was elected PM many people with disabled children expressed the view that 'at last we have someone in power who will understand and empathise with our lives'.
What happened was that he made the lives of those parents and children much much harder and acted against their needs while at the same time using his disabled son as a was of gaining sympathy from the public.

I suspect that Johnson will do a similar thing...

The sad truth is that experience doesn't always bring understanding, wisdom or empathy.

[LMcD]

[QUOTE] My main wish for a post-illness Boris is that he emerges a better person. [QUOTE]

That goes for me, too, but I think that Matthew Parris's article in today's 'Times', the essential burden of which is that we (including Boris) will revert to our normal patterns of behaviour after a fairly short-lived bout of recrimination and soul-searching and a few token gestures towards the emergency services, is likely to prove spot-on.

[Serial_Apologist]

[QUOTE=LMcD;787958][QUOTE] My main wish for a post-illness Boris is that he emerges a better person.

That goes for me, too, but I think that Matthew Parris's article in today's 'Times', the essential burden of which is that we (including Boris) will revert to our normal patterns of behaviour after a fairly short-lived bout of recrimination and soul-searching and a few token gestures towards the emergency services, is likely to prove spot-on.

Parris could be right about BJ if he wanted, but in the end is just a cynic.

[oddoneout]

[QUOTE=LMcD;787958][QUOTE] My main wish for a post-illness Boris is that he emerges a better person.

That goes for me, too, but I think that Matthew Parris's article in today's 'Times', the essential burden of which is that we (including Boris) will revert to our normal patterns of behaviour after a fairly short-lived bout of recrimination and soul-searching and a few token gestures towards the emergency services, is likely to prove spot-on.

It'll be a bit like( I suppose I should qualify that and say some) divorce lawyers I fear, creating friction and dissent for financial and other gain. I suspect it may already bothering some at the top of the heap that sections of the populace seem to be managing some aspects of the logistics rather better than the official administration.
Something that does concern me a little about the PM's coronavirus-lite experience( and by that I don't mean that he wasn't ill or that I would wish the full-blown or fatal version on him(or anyone for that matter)) - is the possibility he will take his own case as typical rather than fortunate. "Look at me, shut away for a week, got worse, had a stay in ICU, now back running the country" and continue with the tunnel vision, belligerent, soundbite-friendly, truth- deficient rhetoric - 'battle, war, fight, we are doing...' - rather than looking at what's actually going on in the country.

[LHC]

[QUOTE=oddoneout;787990][QUOTE=LMcD;787958]

My main wish for a post-illness Boris is that he emerges a better person.

It'll be a bit like( I suppose I should qualify that and say some) divorce lawyers I fear, creating friction and dissent for financial and other gain. I suspect it may already bothering some at the top of the heap that sections of the populace seem to be managing some aspects of the logistics rather better than the official administration.
Something that does concern me a little about the PM's coronavirus-lite experience( and by that I don't mean that he wasn't ill or that I would wish the full-blown or fatal version on him(or anyone for that matter)) - is the possibility he will take his own case as typical rather than fortunate. "Look at me, shut away for a week, got worse, had a stay in ICU, now back running the country" and continue with the tunnel vision, belligerent, soundbite-friendly, truth- deficient rhetoric - 'battle, war, fight, we are doing...' - rather than looking at what's actually going on in the country.

Given that they are pleased that Boris was able to take a few steps today, I suspect he has been much more seriously ill than they have let on, and his stay in ICU was not simply precautionary. He is also fortunate that he didn’t require intubation, as the survival rate for people requiring intubation appears to be very low (I have seen a report that up to 80% of the people placed on ventilators in NY have died).

[Serial_Apologist]

[QUOTE=LHC;787992][QUOTE=oddoneout;787990]

Given that they are pleased that Boris was able to take a few steps today, I suspect he has been much more seriously ill than they have let on, and his stay in ICU was not simply precautionary. He is also fortunate that he didn’t require intubation, as the survival rate for people requiring intubation appears to be very low (I have seen a report that up to 80% of the people placed on ventilators in NY have died).

A married couple in my apartment block are doctors working 12-hour shifts in two separate large London hospitals. The wife told me yesterday that most of their work is on coronovirus wards, supervising and fixing oxygenation and ventilators. Those on ventilators are on sedation; "once they are made prone they can go downhill very fast" she said. How about "bodily functions"? She explained that those on ventilators have a catheter, and are fed laxatives (presumably via another tube), the results of which are then cleared away by nursing staff.

[Bryn]

A married couple in my apartment block are doctors working 12-hour shifts in two separate large London hospitals. The wife told me yesterday that most of their work is on coronovirus wards, supervising and fixing oxygenation and ventilators. Those on ventilators are on sedation; "once they are made prone they can go downhill very fast" she said. How about "bodily functions"? She explained that those on ventilators have a catheter, and are fed laxatives (presumably via another tube), the results of which are then cleared away by nursing staff.

I find this confusing. I understood that turning intubated patients into the prone position aided oxygenation of their lungs. Was your neighbour suggesting a causal link between putting them in the prone position and their deterioration, or is it more that those who are deteriorating are those put into the prone position but that their chances of survival are already compromised by then?

[Dave2002]

I find this confusing. I understood that turning intubated patients into the prone position aided oxygenation of their lungs. Was your neighbour suggesting a causal link between putting them in the prone position and their deterioration, or is it more that those who are deteriorating are those put into the prone position but that their chances of survival are already compromised by then?

I sure hope that there isn't a causal relationship of the kind you have suggested.

[oddoneout]

This might provide more information

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/08/icu-doctor-covid-crisis-hospital

[Bryn]

This might provide more information
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...risis-hospital

Powerful, indeed!

[Dave2002]

Powerful, indeed!

Really moving - but what can we do? All I can think of is try to make suggestions to those who may be able to change things, and hope that they will actually take any notice. Not all of my suggestions will work, but some may or will.

[MrGongGong]

Really moving - but what can we do? All I can think of is try to make suggestions to those who may be able to change things, and hope that they will actually take any notice. Not all of my suggestions will work, but some may or will.

None of them will work
That's the starting point IMV
then from there we try to make the world a better place

[Serial_Apologist]

I find this confusing. I understood that turning intubated patients into the prone position aided oxygenation of their lungs. Was your neighbour suggesting a causal link between putting them in the prone position and their deterioration, or is it more that those who are deteriorating are those put into the prone position but that their chances of survival are already compromised by then?

Not sure - the latter would be my estimation, in conjunction with the Guardian article below. I didn't wish to press her for a fuller explanation.

[alywin]

One doctor on a medical site I frequent is convinced that turning patients onto their fronts in these circumstances is the absolute worst thing you can do. I can't remember his reasoning, though. Worrying if he's right, though :(