How much worse can it get ...??

[Serial_Apologist]

Flybe to the Moon?

Not any more; not even as far as the runway, squire.

Here is another example - as if there weren't enough already - of capitalism's way of over-concentrating resources into companies, or even countries, upon which everything and everyone comes to depend, which then go broke, leaving everything and everyone in the lurch.

I thought there was supposed to be some sort of law requiring firms to give so much notice before getting rid of its personnel. It's not much use fining said firms if there's no money in the coffers - you and I have of course as always to pay the rightful compensation, just like we saved the banks and no one at the top got charged. Watching those two Flybe hostesses on the lunchtime news just now, one of them bordering on tears, was yet another example showing how the system uses its employees as its public face and then discards them when it doesn't need them any more.

[ahinton]

Not any more; not even as far as the runway, squire.

Here is another example - as if there weren't enough already - of capitalism's way of over-concentrating resources into companies, or even countries, upon which everything and everyone comes to depend, which then go broke, leaving everything and everyone in the lurch.

I thought there was supposed to be some sort of law requiring firms to give so much notice before getting rid of its personnel. It's not much use fining said firms if there's no money in the coffers - you and I have of course as always to pay the rightful compensation, just like we saved the banks and no one at the top got charged. Watching those two Flybe hostesses on the lunchtime news just now, one of them bordering on tears, was yet another example showing how the system uses its employees as its public face and then discards them when it doesn't need them any more.

All very well, but any system, straight or corrupt capitalist or non-capitalist, can be brought down or at least gravely undermined by naturally occurring and/or wilfully contrived circumstance and, when that occurs, victims will suffer...

[MrGongGong]

All very well, but any system, straight or corrupt capitalist or non-capitalist, can be brought down or at least gravely undermined by naturally occurring and/or wilfully contrived circumstance and, when that occurs, victims will suffer...

Surely part of the problem with Flybe is that (apart from flights to NI, Channel Islands & Northern Scotland) much of its business depends on folks taking flights from one part of the UK to another when it would be much better to go on the train. RLB on R4 this morning was careful to try and make out that somehow a future Labour government wouldn't stop this and the real problem is the folks who are "frequent flyers", trying so hard to insist that it's OK to fly to Florida once a year for a holiday....

It really is daft that it's cheaper to fly from Manchester to London than to go on the train....

[Serial_Apologist]

All very well, but any system, straight or corrupt capitalist or non-capitalist, can be brought down or at least gravely undermined by naturally occurring and/or wilfully contrived circumstance and, when that occurs, victims will suffer...

That said, it doesn't help when systemic problems inbuilt from the start are bound to surface eventually - or should that be "the get-go"? You don't fit a sink with a faulty tap into a new bathroom, and then later say, well, it was bound to go wrong sooner or later, for whatever reason; it's inevitable, so there's no point in complaining.

[Frances_iom]

It really is daft that it's cheaper to fly from Manchester to London than to go on the train....

the catch is one is often comparing two different situations - rail fares booked well in advance and for specific trains + dates can be very cheap - this is often the situation for the low price quoted for airfares (which tend to not mention the tax) but the rail fare for walk-on any train bought at the station are exceptionally expensive as are many air fares booked at short notice.

One problem is the Islands - here as on the IoM the only alternative is the boat twice a day during winter to Heysham tho with an additional 2 crossings per day during summer to Liverpool - there are other airlines but these tend to use the IoM as a fill-in service for otherwise unused aircraft time and thus cancelable at very short notice if the plane is needed. There are expensive services to London city but, for example during winter the boat leaves at 8.45am (check in at least 20mins earlier) with connecting train arriving in London at about 17.15pm (in summer the timings are much better as via Liverpool but the fast craft (or rather its passengers) cannot cope with the winter weather and is horribly uneconomic for small loadings).

Fly-BE - commonly referred to as fly-may-be was in a somewhat privileged position as its morning flight + evening return had a standard 40% loading booked by the IoM Government for transfers to Liverpool hospital thus very likely this route will be taken up by another airline but fly-BE only operated the smaller + greener aircraft with any high occupancy route liable to be snaffled by the larger operators such as Easy jet.

[LMcD]

From what I've heard and read, this seems to have been yet another example of an ill-timed, over-ambitious expansion.

[MrGongGong]

the catch is one is often comparing two different situations - rail fares booked well in advance and for specific trains + dates can be very cheap - this is often the situation for the low price quoted for airfares (which tend to not mention the tax) but the rail fare for walk-on any train bought at the station are exceptionally expensive as are many air fares booked at short notice.

One problem is the Islands - here as on the IoM the only alternative is the boat twice a day during winter to Heysham tho with an additional 2 crossings per day during summer to Liverpool - there are other airlines but these tend to use the IoM as a fill-in service for otherwise unused aircraft time and thus cancelable at very short notice if the plane is needed. There are expensive services to London city but, for example during winter the boat leaves at 8.45am (check in at least 20mins earlier) with connecting train arriving in London at about 17.15pm (in summer the timings are much better as via Liverpool but the fast craft (or rather its passengers) cannot cope with the winter weather and is horribly uneconomic for small loadings).

Fly-BE - commonly referred to as fly-may-be was in a somewhat privileged position as its morning flight + evening return had a standard 40% loading booked by the IoM Government for transfers to Liverpool hospital thus very likely this route will be taken up by another airline but fly-BE only operated the smaller + greener aircraft with any high occupancy route liable to be snaffled by the larger operators such as Easy jet.

My heart goes out to the poor folks on the IoM

https://www.nomoretax.eu/living/relocation-to-isle-of-man/

https://www.taxcafe.co.uk/resources/taxhaven_isleofman.html

I know not EVERYONE there is rich

[Frances_iom]

get real - there are 90k persons on the Island - yes there are maybe 10-20 rich so +so's - the tax situation is mostly London's making and one of your refs is already 11 years old - the cost of living on Island is probably 15% at least higher - only some car taxes are cheaper even Poundland charges £1.20 on Island - the local supermarket chain adds 30-40% to the waitrose stuff it sells

[MrGongGong]

get real - there are 90k persons on the Island - yes there are maybe 10-20 rich so +so's - the tax situation is mostly London's making and one of your refs is already 11 years old - the cost of living on Island is probably 15% at least higher - only some car taxes are cheaper even Poundland charges £1.20 on Island - the local supermarket chain adds 30-40% to the waitrose stuff it sells

I wasn't being 100% serious
BUT it surely is time we stopped having the ridiculous situation with places like the IoM and Channel Islands being exempt from lots of things?

[Frances_iom]

just a small item of 'home rule' - I haven't noticed your support for the old British Empire - how do you think London 'acquired' the Island

[Andrew]

the catch is one is often comparing two different situations - rail fares booked well in advance and for specific trains + dates can be very cheap - this is often the situation for the low price quoted for airfares (which tend to not mention the tax) but the rail fare for walk-on any train bought at the station are exceptionally expensive as are many air fares booked at short notice.

This is the problem faced by all public transport, be it air or rail, when compared to using one's car. When one drives, the marginal cost is only the cost of fuel (& possibly parking charges) and this is all one normally considers; M.O.T. and taxation (Vehicle Excise Duty) are fixed charges and have to be met, regardless of the mileage. Depreciation, servicing & insurance are only slightly affected by mileage. In fact, these costs become marginally less as mileages rise. Public transport has to consider this when pricing their tickets and base their fares accordingly. Until drivers believe a journey by train costs less than the petrol would be cars will go on being the option of choice for most drivers.

[MrGongGong]

just a small item of 'home rule' - I haven't noticed your support for the old British Empire - how do you think London 'acquired' the Island

"Home Rule" would be good for Scotland don't you think?
OR the Chagos Islands ?

I have no idea about IoM history at all

[teamsaint]

This is the problem faced by all public transport, be it air or rail, when compared to using one's car. When one drives, the marginal cost is only the cost of fuel (& possibly parking charges) and this is all one normally considers; M.O.T. and taxation (Vehicle Excise Duty) are fixed charges and have to be met, regardless of the mileage. Depreciation, servicing & insurance are only slightly affected by mileage. In fact, these costs become marginally less as mileages rise. Public transport has to consider this when pricing their tickets and base their fares accordingly. Until drivers believe a journey by train costs less than the petrol would be cars will go on being the option of choice for most drivers.

Well yes, but there are other factors as well as marginal and fixed costs. I do business trips to Norwich from Wiltshire, for example. Ticket costs are between £50 ( advance) and £80 ( off peak) and diesel about £50

If I spend £80 I ( or my employer) also gain up to 8 hours working time on the train. Probably actually work about 3/4 hours, so that more than pays for the extra ticket costs.
another factor of course is the number of people in the car or travelling by train in a group.

[teamsaint]

And since we are on the subject, anybody know good parking spaces at reasonably sensible prices withing walking distance of the West End , and a sensible drive from the direction of Hants/Surrey ? I was thinking Lambeth/Elephant and Castle might work, but I think street parking is mostly up to 4 hours, and I might need a little more than that.
Edit: ideally outside the congestion charge zone . What about round the Oval ?

[Dave2002]

And since we are on the subject, anybody know good parking spaces at reasonably sensible prices withing walking distance of the West End , and a sensible drive from the direction of Hants/Surrey ? I was thinking Lambeth/Elephant and Castle might work, but I think street parking is mostly up to 4 hours, and I might need a little more than that.
Edit: ideally outside the congestion charge zone . What about round the Oval ?

Simple answer. No! What do you need to go for?

If you don't need the car, go by train, or bus if you can figure out how to do that. If you're a long way south or west, you could drive to somewhere like Leatherhead or Guildford, and take a train from there - but not necesszrily going to give you a significant advantage over taking the train from your starting point.