On changing voice patterns

[Ein Heldenleben]

I find American voices as varied in both sound and degree of pleasantness, or the reverse, as British ones. There is, however, a habit of speech which has developed among particularly American women, and known sometimes as 'gravel voice' (aka glottal fry). At the end of a sentence, the voice drops in pitch to a chest voice, with a gravelly tone. Sadly, I heard an otherwise British-sounding woman on the World Service this morning, reporting from the US (where I assume she lives and works) which had this characteristic. I find it rather disfiguring of the voice.

It’s also known as vocal fry . One English exponent is Amber Rudd. It’s quite common in female politicians and actresses particularly American actresses. There’s quite a debate about why it’s become so pervasive and there are also concerns that it might lead to vocal chord damage. I think Imelda Staunton might have affected her voice by performing Mama Rose in Gypsy a few years back using an extended singing version . Equally it might have been because she was just belting it out a bit...

[kernelbogey]

What a dismaying thread....poor old forum, locked into regretful nostalgia....

Can't you all learn to celebrate difference, variety, the global multiculture of Music and The Voice.....?....this could be age- gender-, physiologically-based and influenced.... I'm genuinely fascinated about that.....

I think for me it is not about nostalgia, Jayne, but simply about liking or disliking certain presenters' voices (both male and female, btw): just as I have differing feelings about some singers' voices - there are some quite famous ones I dislike.

Eighth, I think, has it it, in part:

...i think firstly it is about the talking rather than the content...

The way different presenters use tone, pitch, modulation, seriousness or lightness with the voice is part of their art. For me, a few are excellent at this: others I dislike, while quite a lot sit in between those poles, and I may find myself switching them off on any particular day.

All radio is a mixture of speech and music, and on the bbc that mix varies from station to station. How R3 presenters speak about the music is an important part of the overall offering.

As I have posted many times, TTN is for me the best thing on R3 - all non-commercial recordings of live performance - with expertly nuanced links crafted by the three regular presenters. I don't think that's nostalgia, on my part, for the days of Cormac Rigby et al - just a valuing of minimal information, skilfully and unpretentiously presented. I accept that for others, a more rococo syle of presentation may be preferred.

[Serial_Apologist]

I do seem to have a sensitive ear to voices especially the female voice. I can listen all day to Georgia Mann or Hannah French and a few others on R3 but the others leave me cold and rushing for the OFF button. I rarely watch American films for similar reasons. I can listen to Linda Fiorentino all day as well but the majority of American female voices sound, to me, like a gerbil being castrated with a rusty razor blade.

But what's with the speech patterns of our young these days ? For better or worse, we enjoy watching First Dates but now have the subtitles switched on as most of the youngsters are utterly unintelligible. We're not deaf. Just that the speed at which they now speak renders comprehension impossible. Words tumble into one another. Rarely does one hear a consonant. And it's not just the girls but also the boys. Whatever..it is what it is (sadly).

Now I know that times change etc etc but where has this sudden rush to get words out so fast come from? Is it a spinoff from FOMO ?

And why are most of them appearing on these and other similar programmes so utterly lacking in Emotional Intelligence ? Is it a pre-requisite for appearing ?

It's all down to Just-In-Time - the principle now a good 30 years in operation in industry whereby throughput from raw materials to finished product must be such as not to permit any slack, or "inventory", to accumulate along the line. All in the name of efficiency - or perhaps pre-empting devaluation, since anything left hanging around at any stage in manufacture that is classed as "inventory", and by analogy in life, is regarded in superefficiency terms as time-wasting, time being money. And so, the quicker you can get to say what you feel you've got to say, the less being the better, or the more in less time, the better, the more likely people are to bother with you, as you're not taking up their precious time. In short, its simply a reflection in terms of how we relate to and have less time for each other on modern ideas about efficiency, without which we as a country would go out of business. And of course we will go out of business because Just-In-Time is the one thing most threatened by having to have import/export checks at our borders.

I've been getting quite good at this of late - the above is positively Webernian in its brevity compared with the amount of time I was once afforded to put my POV across. The main drawback these days, I've noticed, is that politicians and experts in their fields, especially those which BBC interviewers don't want to allow enough time to provide a definitive solution to the problems of the world, are usually interrupted midway through their second sentance (on average, in my experience) evidently for fear someone might be watching, or listening, and actually gain a critical perspective. If you don't believe me, think of the number of times you've seen Boris Johnson umming and erring his way through (not) answering an interviewer's question, and never being picked up on it. As with all things, the rich and powerful are allowed to get away with such stunts.

[cloughie]

....this maybe contraversial but....I find four fifths of what Jenny Murray says unintelligible....fine with the other WHour presenters.

....had occasion to listen to R1 for my grandson....dinnerhour current affairs section....a very valleys Welsh man and a constrained squeeky young woman both making perfect sense....[of course a button was clicked in my head which made me consider what they said somewhat less than if Neil Sleet had announced it....basically info on Covid 19)....it wasn't what they said but the manner in which they said it - but of course i am not their usual audience.

....Find it hard to decypher what people on R4 1830 comedy are saying....notably News Quiz....they twist sentences,insert pauses and intone to make the payoff funnier....but i often cannot hear the punchline - so pleased are they in delivering their speedy wit it is delivered into their jumpers....

Usually accompanied by canned laughter to try to convince us at home that it is even funnier!

[Anastasius]

My goodness, S_A. We could be having a discussion about the merits between the relative sizes of quarto vs A4 and somehow I can guarantee you'll bring in Socialism/Communism/rich-bad sooner or later ! We had a bloke like you on our woodworking forum. He'd burn his toast in the morning and it would be capitalism's fault !

[Serial_Apologist]

My goodness, S_A. We could be having a discussion about the merits between the relative sizes of quarto vs A4 and somehow I can guarantee you'll bring in Socialism/Communism/rich-bad sooner or later ! We had a bloke like you on our woodworking forum. He'd burn his toast in the morning and it would be capitalism's fault !

This is a bit of a generalisation, but you will often find that the worst cultural changes - those sowing division and inequality - originate in the substructure (what the system needs to keep itself going, regardless), the best in the superstructure (outside the parameters of profit maximisation). It all adds up, you know, really.

[eighthobstruction]

This is a bit of a generalisation, but you will often find that the worst cultural changes - those sowing division and inequality - originate in the substructure (what the system needs to keep itself going, regardless), the best in the superstructure (outside the parameters of profit maximisation). It all adds up, you know, really.

....yep S_a and we know what it adds up to.... ¬>#* .....all over the substructure....but people are employed later to wash off....luckily

[Anastasius]

....yep S_a and we know what it adds up to.... ¬>#* .....all over the substructure....but people are employed later to wash off....luckily

I wish I knew what you're talking about

[greenilex]

Don’t understand either, but it does make me smile. Monday morning needs that.

[eighthobstruction]

Don’t understand either, but it does make me smile. Monday morning needs that.

....yes today is Monday....yesterday was Paraday....{after years of reading my posts - do you find that odd?}....

[Quarky]

What a dismaying thread....poor old forum, locked into regretful nostalgia....

Can't you all learn to celebrate difference, variety, the global multiculture of Music and The Voice.....?

This came up yesterday and I commented that, with a specific young female voice on Radio 3, it did not sound remotely rushed or gabbled to me (63, female)....is it all about age or gender-based physical differences in how we actually hear these voices....? Perhaps it is...but you can't turn back the clock of cultural time, and we do need more young, female voices involved in every aspect of culture and politics... if they are inspired by the teenage female superheroes in Sci-Fi (Marvel Films etc), well so much the better! I find them inspiring myself! Go Greta!

First Dates.... this is in fact an examination of Emotional Literacy, it sets before us the varying levels of such in the (very brave) people who appear on it. It is (unscripted) theatre as GG says, but more interestingly revealing than most.....of gender & age role & stereotype, how to attempt a "relationship" without falling into the traps of supposed normality....
....you watch as someone reveals (often unconsciously) how their history and upbringing has limited how they can approach and think through a given relationship, or attempt at such....

I don't find the younger voices too rushed or gabbled - but as I said above, this could be age- gender-, physiologically-based and influenced.... I'm genuinely fascinated about that.....

Couldn't agree with you more Jayne

Listen to the words which are spoken, that is the message which is coming over the airwaves. The medium, that is the speaker's voice patterns, are of a second order of importance. Usually I can disregard them.

[Serial_Apologist]

Couldn't agree with you more Jayne

Listen to the words which are spoken, that is the message which is coming over the airwaves. The medium, that is the speaker's voice patterns, are of a second order of importance. Usually I can disregard them.

Especially when what they are announcing so often turns out to be one big let-down.

[StephenMcK]

Listen to the words which are spoken, that is the message which is coming over the airwaves. The medium, that is the speaker's voice patterns, are of a second order of importance. Usually I can disregard them.

Isn't that a bit 'right notes, not necessarily in the right order'?

You see, I'm being told on here, in rather forthright terms, I might add, that things such as pace, breath control, diction, resonance don't matter and I'm being too fussy, but surely these are the very virtues we look for in a good classical performance.

So, I don't imagine much post-concert chat goes as ... "Well, he took that last section much too fast, his breathing broke up a lot of the phrasing, failed to articulate a lot of the notes, but the requiem's still a great piece and he was very enthusiastic. I was even able to catch the earlier train!"

[Quarky]

You see, I'm being told on here, in rather forthright terms, I might add, that things such as pace, breath control, diction, resonance don't matter and I'm being too fussy, but surely these are the very virtues we look for in a good classical performance."

Well, that seems to me a counsel of perfection. My attitude is based on listening to quite a few presenters whose speech patterns I find irritable. I concentrate on the words, which are of prime importance.
Of curse there are some presenters who have been known to use far too many words.
And this says nothing about the quality of the music broadcast, which is what it's all about.

[Serial_Apologist]

....yes today is Monday....yesterday was Paraday....{after years of reading my posts - do you find that odd?}....

It's all your dyslexicon, eighth!